Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/11/03

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Subject: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:37:27 -0400

We all know that not to know this stuff makes our pictures come out all dark
and fuzzy.

-- 
Mark R.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


> From: Philippe Amard <philippe.amard at sfr.fr>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 22:07:42 +0100
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
> 
> Now some manufacturers - Pentax to name just one - had 50mm 1.4 and
> 55mm 1.8 on their catalogues: which of these offered better bokeh or
> faster takes?
> 
> I'm so happy to have a full auto mode on my camera right now.
> 
> Philippe looking for aspirin and about to call Doctor Ted
> 
> 
> 
> Le 3 nov. 11 ? 21:40, Herbert Kanner a ?crit :
> 
>> After this, the dead horse should stay dead.
>> 
>> While your mathematics is correct, I differ with your conclusions.
>> It relates to a distinction between "f numbers" and "stops". Agreed:
>> reciprocal of the square of the f number is proportional to the
>> amount of light getting through. But the question was: "What
>> fraction of a stop is the difference between two f numbers?".
>> 
>> Now, the stops on a lens aperture ring are an arbitrary choice,
>> general;y meaning a factor of two in exposure. So going, say three
>> stops toward smaller f numbers doubles the exposure three times, or
>> 2 to the power 3. Now, let's think about this example of three
>> stops: f/4, f/5.6, and f/11, pretend we don't know that those three
>> numbers are engraved on the aperture ring, and ask: "How many stops
>> are the distance between f/4 and f/11. First, realize that the
>> conventional set of stops aren't exactly a factor 2 in exposure
>> because the lens manufacturers in their wisdom wanted the f numbers
>> to not have more than two digits; who would like 3.99762 engraved on
>> their aperture ring? So, f/4 to f/11 is actually a change in
>> exposure of 7.5625, close enough to 8.
>> 
>> Next let's go backward, again pretending ignorance of aperture ring
>> numbers, and ask how many "stops" change is f/4 to f/11. take 11/4
>> and square it, getting, as before, 7.5625. Take the logarithm (base
>> 2) of 7.5625, and you get 2.918, which is the actual theoretical
>> number of stops, and close enough to the three notches on the ring.
>> 
>> That is the way I calculated the number of stops between 1.8 and 1.4.
>> 
>> How do you calculate log(base 2) of something. Just divide its
>> log(base 10) by log of 2 (base 10)
>> 
>> Herb
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Time to beat a dead horse!  If anyone is interested:
>>> 
>>> It is all geometry, namely the area of a circle.
>>> 
>>> For each f-stop, we have double the light.  The f-stop is related to
>>> the size of the aperture, which is approximated as a circle.  The
>>> amount of light coming is proportional to the circle's area, which
>>> you may recall is pi times the radius squared, pi*r^2.  We use the
>>> f# for the equivalent radius.
>>> 
>>> Thus, starting with f1, and r = 1, the area is pi*r^2 = pi*1*1 = pi,
>>> as the relative amount of light.
>>> 
>>> For an amount of light 2*pi (next f-stop, double the light), pi*r^2
>>> = 2 pi.  Divide both sides by pi, and you get r^2 =2.  r = the
>>> square root of 2, or 1.414?  f1.4 is the next stop.
>>> 
>>> This is where the 1.4 factor George mentioned comes from; the square
>>> root of 2 is 1.414.
>>> 
>>> Next f-stop, double the light again: pi*r^2 = 2*2 pi. r^2  = 4, f2
>>> is the next stop.
>>> 
>>> So, if you want fractional stops:
>>> 
>>> 1/3 stop:   Square root of 1.333 = 1.15456
>>> 1/2 stop:   Square root of 1.5     = 1.22474
>>> 2/3 stop:   Square root of 1.667 = 1.29112
>>> 
>>> So going back to Mark's f1.4 example:
>>> 1/3 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.15456 = f1.633 or f1.6
>>> 1/2 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.22474 = f1.732 or f 1.7
>>> 2/3 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.29112 = f1.828 or f1.8
>>> 1 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.414 =  f2.0
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Matt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 2, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I looked up f 1.8 vs. 1.4 thinking it was between a half and a
>>> quarter of a
>>>> stop and they are saying its 2/3rds!?!?! Anybody know that that's
>>> true?
>>>> 
>>>> Where is there a photo calculator that tells you these things?!?!?
>>> 
>>> I always thought the basic math for 1 f stop revolved around a
>>> factor of 1.4.
>>> 1.4 x 1.4 = 1.96
>>> 1.8 / 1.4 = 1.29
>>> 
>>> so - yes - 2/3 would seem close enough for?
>>> what? I'm not sure.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> George Lottermoser
>>> george at imagist.com
>>> http://www.imagist.com
>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> -- 
>> Herbert Kanner
>> kanner at acm.org
>> 650-326-8204
>> 
>> Question authority and the authorities will question you.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




Replies: Reply from philippe.amard at sfr.fr (philippe.amard) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)
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