Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/11/03

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Subject: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 22:46:33 -0400

By the way on the lead weight:
Lead vs. gold:

Lead has a density of about 11.3 grams per cc,
Gold has a density of about 19.3 grams per cc,
so for a given volume, gold is much heavier than lead.

So it felt like a gold weight.

-- 
Mark R.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


> From: Mark William Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 22:32:47 -0400
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
> 
> Well its not as if there are that many pictures which cant be taken with
> an
1.8 that can be taken with a 1.4.

But with all this conversation I saw
> that I only have one 1.4 lens and
that's my 28. So I put that on tonight and
> it weighs a full pound and kept
thinking I'd bought apples or bananas and had
> them also in my bag and had
forgotten to take them out. It was really a lead
> weight.
Tomorrow I put on my 50 1.8 which weights a third of the 28 1.4.

--
> 
Mark R.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


> From: Jim Nichols
> <jhnichols at lighttube.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group
> <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:49:05 -0500
> To: Leica Users
> Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
> 
> For
> sharper images, use the 55mm 1.8.  I have them both.  I find that
> sharpness
> trumps speed and bokeh in producing images that I am happy with.
> 
> Jim
> Nichols
> Tullahoma, TN USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> "philippe.amard" <philippe.amard at sfr.fr>
> To: "Leica Users Group"
> <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 4:07 PM
> Subject:
> Re: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
> 
> 
>> Now some manufacturers - Pentax to name
> just one - had 50mm 1.4 and  55mm
>> 1.8 on their catalogues: which of these
> offered better bokeh or  faster
>> takes?
>> 
>> I'm so happy to have a full
> auto mode on my camera right now.
>> 
>> Philippe looking for aspirin and
> about to call Doctor Ted
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Le 3 nov. 11 ? 21:40, Herbert Kanner a
> ?crit :
>> 
>>> After this, the dead horse should stay dead.
>>> 
>>> While
> your mathematics is correct, I differ with your conclusions.  It
>>> relates
> to a distinction between "f numbers" and "stops". Agreed:
>>> reciprocal of
> the square of the f number is proportional to the  amount
>>> of light getting
> through. But the question was: "What  fraction of a stop
>>> is the difference
> between two f numbers?".
>>> 
>>> Now, the stops on a lens aperture ring are
> an arbitrary choice,
>>> general;y meaning a factor of two in exposure. So
> going, say three  stops
>>> toward smaller f numbers doubles the exposure
> three times, or  2 to the
>>> power 3. Now, let's think about this example of
> three  stops: f/4, f/5.6,
>>> and f/11, pretend we don't know that those three
> numbers are engraved on
>>> the aperture ring, and ask: "How many stops  are
> the distance between f/4
>>> and f/11. First, realize that the  conventional
> set of stops aren't
>>> exactly a factor 2 in exposure  because the lens
> manufacturers in their
>>> wisdom wanted the f numbers  to not have more than
> two digits; who would
>>> like 3.99762 engraved on  their aperture ring? So,
> f/4 to f/11 is
>>> actually a change in  exposure of 7.5625, close enough to
> 8.
>>> 
>>> Next let's go backward, again pretending ignorance of aperture
> ring
>>> numbers, and ask how many "stops" change is f/4 to f/11. take 11/4
> and
>>> square it, getting, as before, 7.5625. Take the logarithm (base  2)
> of
>>> 7.5625, and you get 2.918, which is the actual theoretical  number
> of
>>> stops, and close enough to the three notches on the ring.
>>> 
>>> That
> is the way I calculated the number of stops between 1.8 and 1.4.
>>> 
>>> How
> do you calculate log(base 2) of something. Just divide its  log(base
>>> 10)
> by log of 2 (base 10)
>>> 
>>> Herb
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Time to beat a dead
> horse!  If anyone is interested:
>>>> 
>>>> It is all geometry, namely the
> area of a circle.
>>>> 
>>>> For each f-stop, we have double the light.  The
> f-stop is related to
>>>> the size of the aperture, which is approximated as a
> circle.  The
>>>> amount of light coming is proportional to the circle's area,
> which
>>>> you may recall is pi times the radius squared, pi*r^2.  We use
> the
>>>> f# for the equivalent radius.
>>>> 
>>>> Thus, starting with f1, and
> r = 1, the area is pi*r^2 = pi*1*1 = pi,
>>>> as the relative amount of
> light.
>>>> 
>>>> For an amount of light 2*pi (next f-stop, double the light),
> pi*r^2
>>>> = 2 pi.  Divide both sides by pi, and you get r^2 =2.  r =
> the
>>>> square root of 2, or 1.414?  f1.4 is the next stop.
>>>> 
>>>> This
> is where the 1.4 factor George mentioned comes from; the square
>>>> root of 2
> is 1.414.
>>>> 
>>>> Next f-stop, double the light again: pi*r^2 = 2*2 pi. r^2
> = 4, f2
>>>> is the next stop.
>>>> 
>>>> So, if you want fractional
> stops:
>>>> 
>>>> 1/3 stop:   Square root of 1.333 = 1.15456
>>>> 1/2 stop:
> Square root of 1.5     = 1.22474
>>>> 2/3 stop:   Square root of 1.667 =
> 1.29112
>>>> 
>>>> So going back to Mark's f1.4 example:
>>>> 1/3 stop slower
> = 1.414 * 1.15456 = f1.633 or f1.6
>>>> 1/2 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.22474 =
> f1.732 or f 1.7
>>>> 2/3 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.29112 = f1.828 or f1.8
>>>> 1
> stop slower = 1.414 * 1.414 =  f2.0
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Matt
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 2, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Mark Rabiner
> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I looked up f 1.8 vs. 1.4 thinking it was between a half
> and a
>>>> quarter of a
>>>>> stop and they are saying its 2/3rds!?!?! Anybody
> know that that's
>>>> true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Where is there a photo calculator
> that tells you these things?!?!?
>>>> 
>>>> I always thought the basic math
> for 1 f stop revolved around a  factor
>>>> of 1.4.
>>>> 1.4 x 1.4 = 1.96
>>>>
> 1.8 / 1.4 = 1.29
>>>> 
>>>> so - yes - 2/3 would seem close enough for?
>>>>
> what? I'm not sure.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> George Lottermoser
>>>> george at
> imagist.com
>>>> http://www.imagist.com
>>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>>>>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>>
> -- 
>>> Herbert Kanner
>>> kanner at acm.org
>>> 650-326-8204
>>> 
>>> Question
> authority and the authorities will question you.
>>> 
>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See
> http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>>
> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See
> http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
> 
>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
>
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> information



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In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)