Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/04/11

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Subject: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
From: photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:36:04 +0200
References: <CBAA9DEA.1CF08%mark@rabinergroup.com>

You obviously have vast experience shooting with the recent line of Leica 
lenses--on your Nikon, or Canon, or whatever it is you shoot?

I, on the other hand, have only modest experience, no more than a few 
thousand images with my M8 and the new 35mm and 75mm Summarit-M's, and those 
lenses give nothing up compared to their pricier counterparts, except 
obviously the f-stop.

Cheers,
Nathan

Nathan Wajsman
Alicante, Spain
http://www.frozenlight.eu
http://www.greatpix.eu
http://www.nathanfoto.com
PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/


YNWA



On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:33 AM, Mark Rabiner wrote:

> The Summarits also pride themselves in no use of any asperical elements.
> This keeps the price down a bit and could appeal to the mindset of some who
> think asperical elements are evil entities sent to rob them of their
> precious bokeh. An idea I've found to not have a trace element of truth.
> They also don't have sophisticated internal moments for special close
> focusing adjustments.
> I find them very un inspiring. I'm a huge fan on how Leica has incorporated
> asperical elements into their modern lens designs and would rather buy one
> of those used than a new Summarit. Or a used Summarit. I'd rather get an
> older Leitz lens from the 80's or 70's. Or 60's or 50's. Or 40's or 30's.
> They get cheaper as they go down.
> The idea of dummying down from its premium lens  line is unusual for Leica.
> The way to save money on a Leica lens has been if not to buy used then to
> get the slow version of that lens. As each focal length came in a fast,
> medium and slow version. The slow version when you look through the camera
> is not darker to see through nor does it pop out of focus any father. Its
> just lighter, sharper and cheaper.
> So its win win win wherever you go.
> If you had more bucks you could get the medium priced spread.
> And if you were rolling in dough you'd get the 1.4. Or whatever the high 
> end
> f stop was. So you paid extra for a bloated heavy more flare prone optic.
> And everybody knew you were a stupid millionaire.
> 
> - - from my iRabs.
> Mark Rabiner
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
> 
> 
>> From: Gene duprey <grduprey at mchsi.com>
>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 00:44:41 -0500 (CDT)
>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>> 
>> Not cheap, but less costly.  They use interchangeble body parts, unlike 
>> the
>> normal model where every lens has specific parts for that lens only.  
>> This is
>> similar to build model that Zeiss uses for their ZM line of lenses, where 
>> they
>> use interchangeble body parts to keep the tooling costs down.
>> 
>> Gene
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Crawford" <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com>
>> To: "Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>" <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:38:38 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>> 
>> So, explain the current Summarit lenses? Leica explicitly said they were
>> designed to be cheap.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Chris Crawford
>> Fine Art Photography
>> Fort Wayne, Indiana
>> 260-437-8990
>> 
>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My portfolio
>> 
>> http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My latest work!
>> 
>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
>> Become a fan on Facebook
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/10/12 11:43 PM, "Mark Rabiner" <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yep that's Leica's business model!  Designing cheap glass.
>>> 
>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>> Mark Rabiner
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:56:39 -0400
>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Cc: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>>> 
>>>> The 28mm Elmarit ASPH is challenged in the corners because it is
>>>> designed to
>>>> be a cheap (orig $1,600) compact lens, no?
>>>> 
>>>> Dante
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 19:03, Marty Deveney <benedenia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The 28 Elmarit 2.8 ASPH appeared to be designed for the M8 not the
>>>>> Summicron - its performance drops in the corners when used wide open
>>>>> on a 24x36mm frame as you can see on the MTF chart linked from here:
>>>>> http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/2194.html.  The
>>>>> 28 Summicron is sharp right out to the corners, and has a very flat
>>>>> field.  H. Ball Arche, who used to use a 28 a lot and posted here
>>>>> prolifically, didn't like the flat field because it made heads in the
>>>>> corners of the frame look like footballs - he preferred the C-V 28/1.9
>>>>> which had greater barrel distortion and a less flat field, but less
>>>>> apparent distortion of things like heads in the corners.  A nice
>>>>> display of the compromises optical design includes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The 35 Summicron ASPH was designed during the film era and in some
>>>>> ways doesn't perform as well as the 35 Summilux ASPH II with the
>>>>> floating element, but it's still pretty formidable.  On the M8 I
>>>>> prefer a 28 to a 35, but I think generally I prefer a 28 overall, even
>>>>> if it is the Nikkor 28mm f1.4 which is actually a ~31mm lens.  After
>>>>> Leica revises the 50 Summicron (now the oldest lens in the M line up
>>>>> and the only Summicron without aspherical element(s)) the 35 and 90
>>>>> ASPH Summicrons are probably next, because they are the oldest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Summicron 28 (borrowed, and my, look at that magenta!):
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Freakscene_001/L1002579.jpg.
>>>>> html
>>>>> Nikkor 28: 
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Tsukiji/File0825.jpg.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marty
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 6:40 AM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.co.nz>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Where are you coming from Mark?
>>>>>> Where has it been said that they are lowering quality??
>>>>>> Where is it said that they designed an M lens for smaller than 24mm x
>>>>>> 36mm???
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am on record here in saying how good the 28mm Summicron is.....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All I am saying, and this backed up by users on this list, is that a
>>>>>> 28mm
>>>>>> lens becomes the equivalent of a 35mm on the M8 and that is a more
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> focal length than 28mm is for FF.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please read (and understand) what is being said rather than making
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> up.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> john
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It strike me as phantasmagorical baloney that Leica lowered its
>>>>>> standards on
>>>>>> edge quality to make the compact Leica 35mm f/2 SUMMICRON-M ASPH
>>>>>> ideal for
>>>>>> the M8 making it less ideal for the M9. By the way the lens is now
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> sold new for just over four grand $.
>>>>>> I don't think Leica has ever made a lens for a crop camera and has
>>>>>> stated
>>>>>> over and over any lens it ever makes will be fully usable on a film M.
>>>>>> I don't t think anything is going to get it to settle for less than
>>>>>> excellent edge quality for its M glass going straight out to a 43.3mm
>>>>>> image
>>>>>> crop circle....
>>>>>> The 28 Summicron is  a gem and at the top of my list for my next
>>>>>> Leica lens.
>>>>>> This lowering of quality thing is a LUG myth which I don't think
>>>>>> we're going
>>>>>> to find documented elsewise.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>>>>> Mark Rabiner
>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: John McMaster <john at chiaroscuro.co.nz>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:47:45 +1200
>>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That is more of an M8 staple rather than the 35mm/50mm of the M9.....
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> john
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have seen more 28 Summicron for sale in the last month than last 2
>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 



In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)