Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/11/06

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Subject: [Leica] Marty, shutter lag in digital M
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 01:55:42 -0500

I think the Leica M which is just not quite coming out but soon the one
without the number after is is probably going to be hands down the most
awesome image making Leica M, R or LTM in the history of Leica.
Its for me all about figuring out how to think outside of the financial box
and get one. I got the glass I just need the body. I need an out of body
experience. ... To get one.

I sure not sweating the shutter lag.

Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


> From: Gene duprey <grduprey at mchsi.com>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:40:09 -0600 (CST)
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Marty, shutter lag in digital M
> 
> I have a M6TTL, and cannot discern any difference in shutter lag nor in 
> image
> quality with film vs digital  When you are talking ms of time, you cannot 
> tell
> the difference, you need a oscilloscope to even see the difference.
> 
> My advice, if you are interested in buying the new M when it hits the 
> stores,
> then do so you will be happy no matter what the so called shutter lag is, 
> and
> you will not miss a shot what so ever due to it.  I have shot milk drops 
> and
> stopped them with strobe setup and gotten great results with my M8, so 
> shutter
> lag is a non issue period.
> 
> Cheers,
> Gene
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Streeter" <jon.streeter at cox.net>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 11:12:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Marty, shutter lag in digital M
> 
> I will resist the temptation to offer shooting advice to other 
> photographers
> whom I don't know and with whose work I am not familiar.
> 
> I thank Marty for providing really sound, articulate, and useful
> information.   I certainly appreciate Tina Manley's opinion that she has 
> not
> found the digital Ms to be problematic.  I've been a fan of Tina's work for
> years.
> 
> On the other hand, some have advised me on how to anticipate action.  
> Others
> have told me shutter lag doesn't really exist.  Still others have said it's
> a waste of time to discuss shutter lag because it's not important.  Imagine
> being a traveler asking directions and being given instruction on finding
> one's way, but not being given the directions you seek.  Imagine being told
> the place you seek doesn't exist, though you're certain it does.  Imagine
> being told you're foolish to go there.  Well, I've "been there."  I bought
> my first camera, a Rolleiflex, when I was fifteen.  When I was seventeen, I
> bought a Leica M3.  At the time, I had only the vaguest idea of how 
> terrific
> these cameras were.  I was, however, very serious about making photographs.
> If you see the photographs I was taking (jonstreeter.com) when I was a
> teenager, I hope you will conclude that I had some understanding of the
> craft early on.  I was certainly seduced by it.
> 
> I posed my original question here, on the LEICA Users Group, in the hope
> that I'd find someone with on-point experience to share.  My question is --
> at the risk of repeating myself -- has anyone returned to a Leica film
> camera after using DSLRs or digital Ms, shot portraits with it, and thought
> the results were somehow better, that you got more hits than with DSLRs or
> digital Ms, and then wondering if it's because the reason you're getting
> such great facial expressions and gestures and movements might just be
> because the Leica M has a shorter shutter lag than the DSLRs?  It's pretty
> much a yes-or-no question, with embellishments and invitations to delve
> further into the subject most welcome.   For example, one might say, Yes,
> I've noticed that myself, but only between DSLRs and Leicas, and, 
> therefore,
> I have concluded it's not shutter lag but something else, perhaps the way
> one perceives things through a rangefinder's viewfinder.   Or one might 
> say,
> Yes, in my portrait sessions with the M9, I do get fewer hits than with my
> MP.  Or one might say, No, I've actually checked this out because I 
> wondered
> the same thing, and I can discern no difference in the results between my 
> M9
> and my M7.  Anybody?  Of course, this might work only if one has had
> portrait sittings or sessions with the same model done with different
> cameras since in that case the main variable would be the camera, not 
> what's
> in front of it.   I know some of you have not noticed a problem with 
> shutter
> lag, but since our styles and subject matter and methods may very likely
> differ, I have no way to relate another photographer's lack of notice of a
> problem with shutter lag to my own situation.
> 
> I would not have written such a lengthy post, but I wanted to make sure my
> question was specific and clear.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Meier
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 1:59 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Marty, shutter lag in digital M
> 
> SLR's that have to autofocus before the shutter goes are not faster than an
> M Leica.
> 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2012, at 2:43 PM, <tedgrant at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Marty Deveney OFFERED:
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marty Deveney" <benedenia at gmail.com>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 7:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Marty, shutter lag in digital M
>> 
>>>> Now that the digital M
>>>> cameras have long shutter-lag times even when compared to DSLRs,
>>>> suddenly
>>>> we're hearing that shutter lag doesn't matter, that nobody notices it.
>>>> Really?  Nobody?  For capturing fleeting expressions in a portrait
>>>> session, nobody has noticed it?<<<<<<<<<<<
>> 
>> Marty Mon ami,
>> Absolute truth at this moment of reading your posts on Leica lag! And me
>> writing this.
>> 
>> The "lag as you describe" in my 50 plus years of using Leica range
>> finders/SLR's quite often several at the same time hanging off my body has
>> never ever entered one iota of a mille-second of my thoughts, concerns,
>> nor
>> that it was even happening."  To prove my point good Sir, please look at
>> my
>> webpage TEDGRANTPHOTO.COM and look at a few mille-second photos of
>> "ACTIONS!" That if you even thought about shooting the moment.... "YOU
>> WOULD
>> MISS IT!"
>> 
>> You see I always figure, as with many other techie things I read on the
>> LUG.
>> If you don't know anything about it?  ..........  YOU DON'T HAVE THEM
>> HAPPEN!  WHY?
>> 
>> Well yer far too busy shooting the action without wasting time slowing
>> down
>> your own reflexes thinking about them, so this stuff just doesn't happen!
>> :-)
>> 
>> Well OK I know I'm being a tad facetious. But, "What you don't know wont
>> hurt you!"
>> 
>> "SHOOT IT WITHOUT THINKING!"
>> 
>> The content of the moment is the most important always! And if you are
>> twittering your brain about some "lag thing?"  YOU WILL MISS THE CONTENT
>> MOMENT! May have something to do with my concept!"   "DON'T THINK! SHOOT
>> IT!"
>> 
>> cheers,
>> Dr. ted
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> The M8, M9 and Monochrom lag time is about 1/13s.  To me it's the most
>>> substantial problem with all these cameras.  It's been discussed here
>>> widely before:
>>> http://leica-users.org/v43/msg02993.html
>>> http://leica-users.org/v44/msg03170.html
>>> 
>>> Leica has stated that the new M (typ 240) has new architecture that
>>> makes the camera faster and the shutter feel smoother.  The dummy
>>> cameras that have been doing the rounds at the trade fairs seem to
>>> display at least the latter, while no-one has measured the former.
>>> 
>>> Marty
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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In reply to: Message from grduprey at mchsi.com (grduprey at mchsi.com) ([Leica] Marty, shutter lag in digital M)