Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/01
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I'll bet you a shiny Nikon rangefinder that Leica digitals do not make the showing that you say you believe they will. I could use another SP. As for my bad luck, it wasn't just mine but a lot of other Leica digital M owners. Then there's Leica not giving me the service I hoped they would considering the amount I paid for the camera. A good amount of that lack of service was supposedly because Leica NJ was swamped with digital M repairs. After I sold my M9, I ran into the Leica rep at Webb Cam in Philly and he asked me how my camera was holding up (he had hand delivered it to Leica NJ for its first repair.) I told him I sold it and all my Leica gear save for my M4 and DR summicron due to the reliability issues and down time I was left without a camera. I was asked what it would take to have me keep an M9 and I said a "free M9 to use as a spare then mine is out at the factory." Then John at the camera shop joined the discussion and told him about my multiple issues with both my M cameras. I said I was perfectly happy with my M4 and my "new" Nikon SP though. Phil Forrest On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 15:16:02 -0500 Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > Phil I think the reason the pros did not give the M9 a try is by them > they'd sold their Leica glass after the debacle of the M8. They got > used to shooting at iso 6400 as a cruising speed, stopped down, and > capturing action. The only reason they needed flash was for contrast > control. I do think and we can think whatever we want to think that > HAD the M9 had a CMOS sensor along the lines of all the DSLR's of the > time it would be able to match their results for the obvious reason > of using a similar sensors and all would have been different. > > I think the m9 is NOT PERCEIVED as having quality control issues. My > hunch was the REALITY of the situation backed that perception up. I > think that your bad luck was not what the rule was it was the > exception. > > I think when we look back at this we'll see it in the context of the > M9 was a first out for Leica. Its first full frame M. they'd just > fired the guy running the company becuae he had inferred such a thing > could be true that such a thing could exist. > The second generation full frame digital M is the numberless digital > M and it looks to me like the camera of Leica lovers dreams. > > I think Leica knows this. Dr. Andreas Kaufmann knows this. His team of > experts know what they have done. Hence the audacious move of not > going into double digits with the new M but no digits at all. > > Mark William Rabiner > Photography > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > From: Philip Forrest <photo.forrest at earthlink.net> > > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 00:48:12 -0500 > > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use > > > > Nope, won't happen. > > The Leica M9 failure rate was far too high for news professionals to > > consider using them for work. It's a fun hobby camera but for the > > hard working journalist, the Leica doesn't cut it. Both my M8 and > > M9 spent about 40% of the time I owned them out at Leica for > > repairs. I personally know owners of a total of nine other M9s in > > the Philadelphia area and every single one of them had to go back > > to Leica a few times. One of my friends went through three shutters > > in his M8 then two shutters and a sensor in his M9. And he's a > > working pro in Philly who luckily has Canon gear for backup but > > while his Leica was out at the factory, the backup became the > > regular camera. > > > > All of the digital Leicas I have seen have had to have sensors > > remapped or replaced due to the hot pixel / vertical line issues. > > So, about 20 digital Leica M bodies in the Philly area that are > > owned by acquaintances of mine and 100% of them had to be repaired. > > Not reliable enough for a premium product. For a camera that costs > > that much, it should not only be reliable, it should be PERFECT. > > > > You said the M9 was going to be the game changer a few years ago, > > Mark. It didn't happen. It drove myself and two of my friends AWAY > > from Leica as a matter of fact due to their incredible expense, > > slow service, and then their declining support for the still > > excellent M8. > > > > So again, we won't see Leicas taking their place in the journalism > > world. Everyone knew the rangefinder was on its way out by 1960, so > > why would that change today? > > > > Phil Forrest > > > > > > On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:58:56 -0500 > > Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > > > >> I do think though the M9 worked and the M is going to work a whole > >> lot better and there are a huge amount of used Leica glass out > >> there in a gamut of price points. Pros are familiar with what > >> Leica rangefinders have done in the not too distant past and will > >> be interested like they always have in what that might add to > >> their work. I think the M is going to be a huge success for Leica > >> and we'll be seeing articles about pros using them for jobs. We > >> didn't wee that with the M9. We will see it with the M. Imagine > >> shooting an f1 lens @ iso 6400! And video clips. I think the new M > >> will get Pro support in the market; and Leica will be back in the > >> hot spot at least where they were in the 90's. When sure a small > >> amount of shooter used Leica but in each group there usually was > >> at least one. > >> > >> Mark William Rabiner > >> Photography > >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > >> > >> > >>> From: Chris Crawford <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> > >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:52:31 -0500 > >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use > >>> > >>> Nikon and Canon digital SLRs are used by 99% of the world's > >>> professionals. Why? Because they're extremely reliable, have > >>> extensive lens and accessory systems, and those companies are the > >>> cutting edge technological leaders....and despite all that, they > >>> cost less than Leicas. > >>> > >>> Professional photographers of all types are hurting economically > >>> today, and that is especially true of journalists. They're poorly > >>> paid, and newspapers have been shedding staff photographers to > >>> save money. Leica has simply priced itself out of the professional > >>> market. It really is that simple. On top of that, Leica's digital > >>> cameras have had a lot of well-publicised technical and > >>> reliability problems. Pros need cameras that "Just Work", every > >>> time. Canon and Nikon cameras "Just Work". The lenses are > >>> affordable. The image quality is magnificent. Using Nikon or > >>> Canon is a no-brainer. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Chris Crawford > >>> Fine Art Photography > >>> Fort Wayne, Indiana > >>> 260-437-8990 > >>> > >>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio > >>> > >>> http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com My latest work! > >>> > >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 > >>> Become a fan on Facebook > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 11/29/12 8:41 PM, "David Ching" <davidhhching1 at yahoo.com.sg> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Come on, don't tease, tell us all. Which one/s? Why, if you know > >>>> the reasons. > >>>> > >>>> And why not Leicas? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> David Ching > >>>> > > > > > > -- > > http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest