Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/03/26

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Subject: [Leica] Sensor frustration
From: sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:14:43 -0500
References: <54E71BCC-A2DA-4984-94B9-13E373AB2DE7@frozenlight.eu> <E5BD81D9A8634C25A8A339AD513D8453@billHP> <CABNC8SqNK_Q4RExp+gmztMXc4wYU31pSjSQFFB_ye8au39jmkA@mail.gmail.com> <EE785BB4-0702-49B8-9EFE-E02CA5DC79EA@frozenlight.eu> <1AC91758-8454-4493-AC39-6C860F7A5A81@acm.org>

The shaking does great for dust and hairs and the like.  I never have a
problem on my Pentax Kr or any of the other K digitals I've used.

I ran into oily spots on the M8, and the Eclipse product worked fine.  So
far, with the M9 I've seen no oil issues, and I really haven't had the
cleaning problems I did with the M8.




On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 1:31 AM, Herbert Kanner <kanner at acm.org> wrote:

> Someone once told me that the sensor cleaning mechanism just vibrates the
> sensor to shake crap off. Didn't sound to me like anything that would work
> well, but from what you have experienced, it apparently does.
>
> Herbert Kanner
> kanner at acm.org
> 650-326-8204
>
> Question authority and the authorities will question you.
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>
> > Sorry Cedric, but those old stories about Barnack etc., with which we
> are all familiar, have no relevance whatsoever to the subject at hand.
> Olympus came out with its SSWF technology in the E-1 in 2003, and within a
> couple of years it became standard on the other major brands--except Leica.
> I vaguely recall some engineering excuses for its absence on the M8 and
> later M9, but frankly speaking, as a user, I do not care about those
> excuses. All I know that with my inferior and much cheaper Pentax and
> Panasonic cameras I never have to clean the sensor and never have spots
> (and yes, I change lenses on those cameras at least as often as on the
> Leica), whereas on the Leica it is a recurring problem.
> >
> > No excuse. Putting liquids and swabs on sensors is just so pathetically
> 20th century.
> >
> > Nathan
> >
> > Nathan Wajsman
> > Alicante, Spain
> > http://www.frozenlight.eu
> > http://www.greatpix.eu
> > PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> > Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
> >
> > YNWA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 23, 2013, at 8:41 PM, Cedric Agie wrote:
> >
> >> I do have some difficulties to agree with these humorous points of
> >> vieuw. Of course photographers by definition must be able to have a
> >> large point of vieuw.
> >>
> >>> From the beginning when Oskar Barnack had started playing with the
> >> idea of taking pictures with a cine film, he, and later Leitz, its
> >> technicians and engineers always did everything they could to improve,
> >> but also to symplify this wonderfull camera. And certainly once
> >> Grandfather Ernst Leitz I had decided to start its production. They
> >> not only do everything to symplify production, but also in the vieuw
> >> of after sales services i.e. repairs and maintenance (CLA etc). This
> >> cuts costs during and after production, that's nothing new in the
> >> economy. Don't forget Leicas are for a good part handmade, tuned and
> >> checked. It went so far that Oscar Barnack asked to have his own
> >> office next to the production hall with a large vieuw on it. He never
> >> stopped improving and simplyfying a model even during production.
> >> Break downs are often taken into consideration when cameras come back
> >> to the factory.
> >>
> >> A simple example; if you can have a look at every possible model of
> >> the M-4 since it came to the market. You will never see 2 identical
> >> models if you take a very close look at it. Dimensions and look don't
> >> change much but for ex the tiny screws that appear on the front of the
> >> camera holding it together, not only don't have the same look, but you
> >> will also find them at differend places as production was improved.
> >>
> >> Regarding the CCD and now CMOSIS captor, Leica tried to follow the
> >> evolution of this technology verry closely and used it as soon as
> >> possible. But they also have to do with it as it comes to   market
> >> i.e. to make a good camera that suits their potential clients at a
> >> certain moment. I too cursed and fumbled at these tiny spots and specs
> >> I saw in the beginning with my beloved M-9. In time I took more care
> >> and precautions when changing lenses. Those of us if not most of us
> >> will certainly remember we often had to fight against dust, dirt,
> >> specs and tiny spots etc when we worked in the darkroom. Enlarging
> >> color and developping Ektachromes made things even worse. Moving a
> >> darkroom to another place had sometimes catastrophic consequences.
> >>
> >> There must be a way and a solvent that helps to clean the captor,
> >> maybe the same way we clean our lenses i.e. carefully. But who knows
> >> the formula of the contents of that magic and expensive bottle? Whe
> >> certainly will find out sooner or later. I do have an idea. I will let
> >> you know if I find out.
> >>
> >> Regards & have a good W-E.
> >>
> >> Cedric
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/3/23 Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net>:
> >>> I have heard similar laments from owners of German cars, about
> mechanical
> >>> issues not sensors. There is something about the Germans that I can't
> >>> understand. I have heard it said that German engineering means why use
> two
> >>> parts when ten will do?
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Nathan Wajsman
> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:45 AM
> >>> To: lug Group
> >>> Subject: [Leica] Sensor frustration
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Why, oh why did Leica choose not to build in a sensor-cleaning system
> into
> >>> their cameras, pioneered by Olympus many years ago? Because zat is not
> ze
> >>> vay ve do it here, I suppose. But having spent 20 minutes fighting with
> >>> spots on my M8 sensor, and probably having made the problem worse, I
> am just
> >>> frustrated. Basically, my M8 is useless for any pictures with blue sky
> in
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> Grumpy.
> >>>
> >>> Nathan
> >>>
> >>> Nathan Wajsman
> >>> Alicante, Spain
> >>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> >>> http://www.greatpix.eu
> >>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> >>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
> >>>
> >>> YNWA
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
Regards,

Sonny
http://sonc.com/look/
Natchitoches, Louisiana

USA


In reply to: Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from billcpearce at cox.net (Bill Pearce) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from cedric.agie at gmail.com (Cedric Agie) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from kanner at acm.org (Herbert Kanner) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)