Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/03/26

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Subject: [Leica] Sensor frustration
From: cedric.agie at gmail.com (Cedric Agie)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:34:57 +0100
References: <54E71BCC-A2DA-4984-94B9-13E373AB2DE7@frozenlight.eu> <E5BD81D9A8634C25A8A339AD513D8453@billHP> <CABNC8SqNK_Q4RExp+gmztMXc4wYU31pSjSQFFB_ye8au39jmkA@mail.gmail.com> <EE785BB4-0702-49B8-9EFE-E02CA5DC79EA@frozenlight.eu> <1AC91758-8454-4493-AC39-6C860F7A5A81@acm.org> <CAH1UNJ0ya=nHjp836PWyZGjZHXLymXyB4VLhoYqBu4zz5YMOMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for this most interesting info.

Regards.

Cedric

2013/3/26 Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>:
> It works brilliantly - I have hardly cleaned a sensor since Nikon
> introduced this in their bodies. Before that I used to clean sensors all
> the time with this gizmo called SensorKlear - which is I think the easiest
> way to do it. Remember that in most bodies all that you are cleaning is the
> anti-aliasing filter, not the sensor, which is relatively inexpensively
> replaced even in the unlikely circumstance that something should go wrong:
>
> http://www.lenspen.com/?resultType=category&params=16&tpid=0&tpid=322
>
> This is how you do it:
>
> http://www.lenspen.com/how_to_use/dslr_sensor_cleaning/
>
> I still have these on hand for emergencies in the field...
>
> Cheers
> Jayanand
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Herbert Kanner <kanner at acm.org> wrote:
>
>> Someone once told me that the sensor cleaning mechanism just vibrates the
>> sensor to shake crap off. Didn't sound to me like anything that would work
>> well, but from what you have experienced, it apparently does.
>>
>> Herbert Kanner
>> kanner at acm.org
>> 650-326-8204
>>
>> Question authority and the authorities will question you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>>
>> > Sorry Cedric, but those old stories about Barnack etc., with which we
>> are all familiar, have no relevance whatsoever to the subject at hand.
>> Olympus came out with its SSWF technology in the E-1 in 2003, and within a
>> couple of years it became standard on the other major brands--except 
>> Leica.
>> I vaguely recall some engineering excuses for its absence on the M8 and
>> later M9, but frankly speaking, as a user, I do not care about those
>> excuses. All I know that with my inferior and much cheaper Pentax and
>> Panasonic cameras I never have to clean the sensor and never have spots
>> (and yes, I change lenses on those cameras at least as often as on the
>> Leica), whereas on the Leica it is a recurring problem.
>> >
>> > No excuse. Putting liquids and swabs on sensors is just so pathetically
>> 20th century.
>> >
>> > Nathan
>> >
>> > Nathan Wajsman
>> > Alicante, Spain
>> > http://www.frozenlight.eu
>> > http://www.greatpix.eu
>> > PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>> > Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>> >
>> > YNWA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mar 23, 2013, at 8:41 PM, Cedric Agie wrote:
>> >
>> >> I do have some difficulties to agree with these humorous points of
>> >> vieuw. Of course photographers by definition must be able to have a
>> >> large point of vieuw.
>> >>
>> >>> From the beginning when Oskar Barnack had started playing with the
>> >> idea of taking pictures with a cine film, he, and later Leitz, its
>> >> technicians and engineers always did everything they could to improve,
>> >> but also to symplify this wonderfull camera. And certainly once
>> >> Grandfather Ernst Leitz I had decided to start its production. They
>> >> not only do everything to symplify production, but also in the vieuw
>> >> of after sales services i.e. repairs and maintenance (CLA etc). This
>> >> cuts costs during and after production, that's nothing new in the
>> >> economy. Don't forget Leicas are for a good part handmade, tuned and
>> >> checked. It went so far that Oscar Barnack asked to have his own
>> >> office next to the production hall with a large vieuw on it. He never
>> >> stopped improving and simplyfying a model even during production.
>> >> Break downs are often taken into consideration when cameras come back
>> >> to the factory.
>> >>
>> >> A simple example; if you can have a look at every possible model of
>> >> the M-4 since it came to the market. You will never see 2 identical
>> >> models if you take a very close look at it. Dimensions and look don't
>> >> change much but for ex the tiny screws that appear on the front of the
>> >> camera holding it together, not only don't have the same look, but you
>> >> will also find them at differend places as production was improved.
>> >>
>> >> Regarding the CCD and now CMOSIS captor, Leica tried to follow the
>> >> evolution of this technology verry closely and used it as soon as
>> >> possible. But they also have to do with it as it comes to   market
>> >> i.e. to make a good camera that suits their potential clients at a
>> >> certain moment. I too cursed and fumbled at these tiny spots and specs
>> >> I saw in the beginning with my beloved M-9. In time I took more care
>> >> and precautions when changing lenses. Those of us if not most of us
>> >> will certainly remember we often had to fight against dust, dirt,
>> >> specs and tiny spots etc when we worked in the darkroom. Enlarging
>> >> color and developping Ektachromes made things even worse. Moving a
>> >> darkroom to another place had sometimes catastrophic consequences.
>> >>
>> >> There must be a way and a solvent that helps to clean the captor,
>> >> maybe the same way we clean our lenses i.e. carefully. But who knows
>> >> the formula of the contents of that magic and expensive bottle? Whe
>> >> certainly will find out sooner or later. I do have an idea. I will let
>> >> you know if I find out.
>> >>
>> >> Regards & have a good W-E.
>> >>
>> >> Cedric
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2013/3/23 Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net>:
>> >>> I have heard similar laments from owners of German cars, about
>> mechanical
>> >>> issues not sensors. There is something about the Germans that I can't
>> >>> understand. I have heard it said that German engineering means why use
>> two
>> >>> parts when ten will do?
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Nathan Wajsman
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:45 AM
>> >>> To: lug Group
>> >>> Subject: [Leica] Sensor frustration
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Why, oh why did Leica choose not to build in a sensor-cleaning system
>> into
>> >>> their cameras, pioneered by Olympus many years ago? Because zat is not
>> ze
>> >>> vay ve do it here, I suppose. But having spent 20 minutes fighting 
>> >>> with
>> >>> spots on my M8 sensor, and probably having made the problem worse, I
>> am just
>> >>> frustrated. Basically, my M8 is useless for any pictures with blue sky
>> in
>> >>> them.
>> >>>
>> >>> Grumpy.
>> >>>
>> >>> Nathan
>> >>>
>> >>> Nathan Wajsman
>> >>> Alicante, Spain
>> >>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>> >>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>> >>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>> >>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>> >>>
>> >>> YNWA
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Leica Users Group.
>> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Leica Users Group.
>> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Leica Users Group.
>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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In reply to: Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from billcpearce at cox.net (Bill Pearce) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from cedric.agie at gmail.com (Cedric Agie) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from kanner at acm.org (Herbert Kanner) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Sensor frustration)