Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]On May 25, 2013, at 12:05 PM, Richard Taylor <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> wrote: > Steve - I agree with this completely. Sensor size is only relevant to the > size of print you want to make, the noise you can live with, and the > dynamic range you need. For much, maybe most of what I do, micro-4/3rds > is just fine even though I'm shooting mostly with a X Pro-1 these days. > > I still think Leica missed the boat by not bringing out a very high > quality micro-4/3rds camera system. It would have been following in the > great tradition of the company. maybe it's in the "black box" (or maybe nothing is in the box).... I am happily using my leica lenses, but not my leica bodies.... > There may be some movement in the press towards trying smaller sensor > sizes. This year at the Boston Symphony concerts, the photographer > covering them for the Boston Globe has switched from a big DSLR in a even > larger wooden blimp to what looks to me to be a Panasonic GX-1 with a long > zoom and no blimp. It will be interesting to see if he returns with it > next year. tell me, who is conducting the BSO these days? Levine, another, a new music director? What is going on? Steve > > > Dick > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Steve Barbour wrote: > >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Richard Taylor <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> >> wrote: >> >>> Well, as others have said, it's hard to imagine Leica competing with >>> themselves so FF is not a starter, I think. Fuji and others have shown >>> what can be done with APS-C so if the build and image quality with M >>> lenses were high, I might go for that price. >> >> Remember Dick that there is nothing sacred about going to "full frame" >> except (other things being equal) that bigger is better (sorta like >> film). So why stop at full frame ? When you get to full frame, you will >> still want a bigger sensor, and as the Sony RX1 has shown you can put a >> full frame sensor in a small camera body. And so it goes endlessly, >> unless at some point you say, I like my images just the way they are. >> >> >> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> Dick >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 12:23 PM, grduprey at mchsi.com wrote: >>> >>>> $3.5 K would not be acceptable for a APS-C camera, a FF camera would be >>>> another thing all together. >>>> >>>> Gene >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Richard Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> >>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:00:36 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations >>>> >>>> I think Steve has it right. Unless the Mini proves to be a useable >>>> camera at an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally >>>> abandoned those of us looking for a practical tool in favor of the >>>> gifters and collectors. >>>> >>>> Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C sensor, >>>> a built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and microlenses on >>>> the sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image quality with or >>>> without an adapter. The anticipated price of about $3.5K would be in >>>> the acceptable range for me if the camera met the other criteria. >>>> >>>> Dick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " >>>>>> tall >>>>>> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone >>>>>> successful. Good >>>>>> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does >>>>>> well. >>>>>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs >>>>>> that we >>>>>> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to >>>>>> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may >>>>>> value >>>>>> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if >>>>>> you >>>>>> value Leica for the photographs you can make? >>>>> >>>>> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who >>>>> don't make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of >>>>> course it is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I >>>>> don't think that you have answered my question. The short run is >>>>> already surely impacted as I have just noted. I was asking about the >>>>> longer run. What does this model predict in terms of future optical >>>>> quality? >>>>> >>>>> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm >>>>> XE-1 body, with a better experience and with better results than with >>>>> the latest Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already >>>>> compromised, and their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means >>>>> that they are not currently giving priority to the practical needs of >>>>> professionals and discriminating users. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Geoff >>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at >>>>>>> gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nathan, >>>>>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was >>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so >>>>>>>> obvious - >>>>>>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the >>>>>>> positioning, >>>>>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly >>>>>>>> obvious, >>>>>>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to >>>>>>>> spread >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for >>>>>>>> them, >>>>>>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as >>>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay >>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as >>>>>>>> well). >>>>>>> It >>>>>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> last >>>>>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - >>>>>>>> though I >>>>>>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, >>>>>>>> because as >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic >>>>>>>> quality. It >>>>>>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in >>>>>>>> China >>>>>>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will >>>>>>>> shaft the >>>>>>>> Russian market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As >>>>>>>> far as >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, >>>>>>>> bar a >>>>>>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big >>>>>>>> topline >>>>>>> hit. >>>>>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would >>>>>>>> be if >>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same >>>>>>>> time, as >>>>>>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out >>>>>>> sooner >>>>>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jayanand, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal >>>>>>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound >>>>>>> rather >>>>>>> ominous. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>> Jayanand >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at >>>>>>>> frozenlight.eu >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography >>>>>>>>> business >>>>>>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people >>>>>>>>> obviously >>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that >>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> interested in supplying photographers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Nathan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> YNWA >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. >>>>>>>>>> They >>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> profit >>>>>>>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for example, >>>>>>> Beijing >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made >>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. >>>>>>> US$258,280. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information