Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/03/12

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Subject: [Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?
From: jim at hemenway.com (Jim Hemenway)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:14:20 -0400
References: <6614830f753861a611e485f04e9f0c6b@mail.gmail.com> <531FA532.5050407@lighttube.net> <405cd3300ff74cbc7833ceffaf3a0ff8@mail.gmail.com> <5320BBFA.3020300@hemenway.com> <7cbe0a2c0909381d04cb827e8a224057@mail.gmail.com>

Smiling

On 3/12/14 4:01 PM, Jim Shulman wrote:
> It there were a rear-opening door, I'd agree--but since the IIIb is bottom
> loading, that doesn't seem to be the case.  I'm loading up a number of
> standard, reloadable 35mm cassettes and trying those this weekend.  In the
> words of Zsa Zsa Gabor, upon the occasion of her umpteenth marriage, "If
> this no work I shoose myself."
>
> J
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org] On Behalf 
> Of
> Jim Hemenway
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:57 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?
>
> Hi Jim:
>
> I wonder if there isn't a small bump of some sort, (piece of tape?) on the
> inner spool which is forming a cam and which then pushes on the inside of
> the door and forces it open just enough to give you the problem.
>
> Best,
>
> Jim Hemenway
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/11/14 8:30 PM, Jim Shulman wrote:
>> The "leak" is always in the same place relative to the frame.
>> However, it appears irregularly, about three or four times in the
>> course of 40 frame roll.
>>
>> The Leica FILCA/IXMOO (and there were similar Nikon, Contax and Canon
>> versions) metal reloadable cassettes did not use a felt lip.  In fact,
>> that's their charm: there is zero drag on the film from a felt light
>> trap, and no chance of acquiring scratches from a felt lip.  The Leica
>> cartridges come in three parts: the spool, the inner sleeve, and the
>> outer sleeve.  It's actually rather ingenious: when the cartridge is
>> fully and properly loaded, a short strip of film protrudes (as leader
>> for threading).  Thread the film as you would with an standard
>> manufacturer-loaded cartridge, and close the camera.  When you lock
>> the base plate, moving the key from "AUF to ZU", something ingenious
>> happens
>> inside:  the FILCA locking pin is slightly lifted, unlocking the film
>> window.  As you turn the key, a notch in the internal base plate
>> engages a pin in the FILCA, moving the film opening window from closed
>> to completely open.  At the end of the roll, by opening the baseplate
>> the operation is revered, and you remove a light-tight cartridge,
>> ready for disassembly in the lab and processing.
>>
>> When Leicas were first produced, there was virtually no other option
>> than for photographers to "roll their own", necessitating a reloadable
>> cassette.  Kodak only started offering pre-loaded 35mm cassettes with
>> the introduction of their Retina cameras, in 1934.  Beyond that time,
>> the considerable economies of loading one's own film from a master
>> roll made the metal cassettes still desirable.  However, by the 1950s
>> the convenience of pre-loaded film and the relatively diminishing cost
>> difference between pre-loaded and user-loaded make the FILCA/IXMOO an
>> anachronism.  Tom A. swears by his IXMOOs (which were designed for the
>> M2/3 cameras, and are backwards-compatible with the Barnacks--though
>> not the other way around!)  Since Tom has something like ten miles of
>> Kodak
>> 5222 (the Super XX emulsion), his IXMOOs are essential.
>>
>> Here's a short film by Tom on how to load one.  Takes a little
>> practice, but it's fairly straightforward.  Plus, there's a real
>> feeling of satisfaction when you have a fanny pack filled with your
>> pre-loaded cassettes.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn-G6g3Om3s
>>
>> Best,
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org
>> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jim Nichols
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 8:07 PM
>> To: Leica Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> My original Leica, which I still have, was a IIIa.  I shot numerous
>> rolls of bulk film, but I loaded the film into Kodak cartridges, which
>> were fairly simple to separate and reassemble. I don't recall ever
>> seeing anything like your example, which shows the fogging goes to the
>> edge of the film stock.  I have never used Leica cartridges, but seem
>> to recall they have a felt seal.  I think the problem stems from the
> cartridge.
>> Perhaps a loose felt strip that only bends back on occasion.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> PS:  Does the "leak"  always show up in the same spot relative to the
>> frame, or is the placement more random?
>>
>> Jim Nichols
>> Tullahoma, TN USA
>>
>> On 3/11/2014 6:44 PM, Jim Shulman wrote:
>>> Well, I've been shooting with my IIIb/SCNOO ensemble for a few weeks,
>>> and love it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With one exception:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The other day I was merrily shooting away with Kodak 5222 loaded into
>>> several of the Leica metal FILCA cartridges for the IIIb/SCNOO
>>> combination.  After processing, I noticed that several of the frames
>>> seemed to have a strange fogging, almost like a crescent dagger from
>>> the bottom of the frame (bottom, as in what was in the bottom of the
>>> camera) about every so often, maybe five frames total out of 40.
>>> These came when I was shooting in regular daylight--some bright sun,
>>> some shade, and did my film loading in subdued light (or indoors).
>>> I've attached an image file showing the offending "dagger" fogging.
>>>
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/focusit/filca+fog.jpg.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seemed strange.  So I ran a side-by-side test at end of day, first
>>> shooting a roll of FILCA-loaded Kodak 5222, then a roll of Fuji Acros
>>> 100 in the standard Fuji metal cartridge.  Both came out fine with no
>>> dagger-like fogging.  The sun was out, but not brightly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought I might have misloaded the FILCAs for some reason, so I
>>> loaded another and went out shooting in regular bright daylight.
>>> Again, every so often there was the dagger-like fog at the bottom of
>>> the occasional frame (and no pattern to the "daggers"; they appeared
>>> irregularly.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yesterday, I ran another test: I shot a roll of very old Plus-X, in
>>> the standard Kodak cartridge, in bright sunlight.  I took off the
>>> lens and aimed the camera at the bright sun; I shot in brightly lit
>>> areas, I shot in dim areas.  No fogging whatsoever on the film.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any idea what's happening?  If it were a camera light leak, it would
>>> have happened on all types of film cartridges, both standard and
>>> Leica
>> FILCA.
>>> If it were a FILCA problem alone, it would have leaked when I shot
>>> toward the end of day (in the double-blind test).  If it were a
>>> darkroom loading problem, it would have happened to all my film.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One suggestion I've received is that there's a tiny light leak near
>>> the take-up spool, based on the sharp definition of the leak pattern.
>>> If that's the case, though, why not on both FILCA and non-FILCA loads?
>>> After all, the take up spool has nothing to do with the type of film
>> cartridge.
>>>
>>> As the King said, "It is a puzzlement".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jim Shulman
>>>
>>> Wynnewood, PA
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
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In reply to: Message from jshulman at judgecrater.com (Jim Shulman) ([Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?)
Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?)
Message from jshulman at judgecrater.com (Jim Shulman) ([Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?)
Message from jim at hemenway.com (Jim Hemenway) ([Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?)
Message from jshulman at judgecrater.com (Jim Shulman) ([Leica] Interesting technical problem--your thoughts?)