Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/07/19
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I'm writing about how how the silent majority here in the US would presume to say what's ok for Asians. And other minorities as well. "They should not be so over sensitive. They should let us define them." What would or should be insulting to them and what should not. And what people call themselves. I am pretty clearly writing a pro diversity and individuality message build on respect for other peoples. We is me. "We" are the bad guys in the story. And when its explained to me clearly why the word "we" is objectionable I will of course deny ever having used it. And will use "Us" instead. The problem of course is getting a consensus. I can't claim to speak for bland people who look like me here in the US and I imagine you can't claim to speak for all Asians or Japanese people in Canada. We just have our opinions.We have internet search engines.. Its great to hear your opinion on the non offensiveness of The G&S operetta The Mikado. It would be great if your opinion was part of a real consensus but I think in the next few years we'll find even more clearly that it is not. I think we'll find that a great many Asian people are offended by the play and have been for a long time. As this is not new news its old news.... We've got this thing called the internet now so its an easy thing to check out. The first 4 Goggles: 1995 http://web.stcloudstate.edu/scogdill/mikado/racism.html 2024 http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2024050056_mikadosharonpianchancolumn14 xml.html 2013 http://www.nikkeiview.com/blog/2013/05/its-time-to-take-the-offensive-yellow face-of-the-mikado-off-the-stage/ 2000 http://brightlightsfilm.com/30/topsyturvy1.php#.U8pghhzeonY " that still leaves one question unanswered: Why would Mike Leigh, known for his astute films about social issues, revive The Mikado, even though modern audiences might recoil from the content? As the opera rekindled Gilbert and Sullivan's partnership and as their fans have treasured this opera most, it makes sense that Leigh's tribute would center on The Mikado. There's no obvious way in which he could have distanced himself from the material and commented on it ironically. But the film embraces the opera too enthusiastically, as if nothing had changed in 115 years. As this is untrue, Japanophile viewers of Topsy-Turvy may experience a large disconnect." On 7/19/14 7:17 AM, "Ken Iisaka" <ken at iisaka.com> wrote: > Who the hell are WE, Mark??? This is one of the most insulting I have read > on > LUG. It is as if "WE" do not include the likes of me. Besides, "Asians" > make > up about 60% of the global population, who the heck are WE anyway? As a US > resident of Japanese heritage with Canadian citizenship, I never thought of > Mikado as being insulting towards Japanese any more than Madama Butterfly > is, > though portraiture of the Japanese culture is certainly na?ve. However, there > had been (and are) movies in particular which are categorically offensive > because of the intent: Breakfast at Tiffany's being one of the most > egregious > and best known example. Compared to this, both Mikado and Madama Butterfly > are > quite adorable in their misconception and misunderstanding. We do have an > ugly history, and it is quite inevitable that we have things that are > offensive to some. Is the "Swedish chef" in Sesame Street offensive to > Swedes? > Merchant of Venice to Jews? Finnish in Monty Python? Polish and Newfie > jokes? > Yes, but so what? I have better things to worry about. Sent from my > iPhone > On Jul 19, 2014, at 2:19 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> > wrote: > > The issue is not how WE think about it but what the Asian people > want. > If Asian people in what appears to be as in some kind of consensus > are > giving the show it a thumbs down than its a play which is more that > dated it > should probably not be done. I'm wondering how many if any were in > the > audience. > Flower Drum Song we all thought was a great show but we > started to figure it > out earlier on realize is was more than just benignly > dated and its really > no longer done any more. I just checked. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_Drum_Song > I still have my LP somewhere. > Its about worn out. I can sing the whole show > for you by heart every verse > I'm pretty sure. But would be embarrassed to do > it within earshot of an > Asian friend. > " Chop suey, chop suey! > Good and bad, intelligent, mad, and > screwy." that was me singing. > I'm going to have to stare at a whirling > black cube. > As much as I hate to say or think it the same might happen with > "The Mikado" > which I have also loved for decades and have recently seen in a > slick > production in Portland OR. And have often sung along to my CD's of it > I have > two different versions of much of it. And pretty much have all the > lyrics > memorized. > "IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO WE AAARE" that was me singing > just now. And is as > far as I'm going to go. > We just don't get to define > other peoples identity issues. Only our own. I > should speak for myself. We > might decide tomorrow that "white people" is > offensive to our ears and we > want to be called the "evil beige people". I'm > sure it would catch on with > no controversy. > > About decade or so ago black people decided in a kind of > consensus that they > didn't what to be called black people any more. The > wanted to go with the > term "African Americans" Lots of white people had big > opinions about it on > tv news shows but in the end everyone knew it was just > now up to us. It was > up to them. Turns out the term is still used but way > less often. Whoopi > Goldberg said she was not going to change. Nobody wants > to mess with her. > That could be it. > > >> On 7/19/14 4:42 AM, "Peter A. > Klein" <pklein at threshinc.com> wrote: >> >> This pair was protesting and > handing out leaflets in front of the >> Seattle Gilbert and Sullivan Society's > production of "The Mikado," which >> they regard as "Yellowface" and racist. I > accepted their leaflets, but >> when I took out my camera, they concealed > their faces. >> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/24844563 at N04/14689190055/> >> > >> On Monday, a Seattle Times opinion page editor slammed the production, >> > which she hadn't seen. This was followed by two radio interviews in >> which > she repeated her charges of "Yellowface" and racism. An Internet >> flamefest > followed, including calls for a boycott and shutting down the >> show. There > were fears that the performance would be disrupted, but that >> didn't happen > Friday night, and only these two showed up. >> >> If you're interested in > reading more about what's going on, Google these >> words: seattle mikado > gilbert sullivan. You'll find all the relevant >> stuff on the first two > pages. >> >> Full disclosure: Yours truly is not unbiased. I love Gilbert > and >> Sullivan, I love "The Mikado," and I played bassoon in the company > back >> in the 1980s. If this were a realistic play with Asian characters > being >> played by whites and/or mugging offensive stereotypes, I would be >> > sympathetic to the concerns. But that's not what "The Mikado" is. It's >> > Brits (or Americans) playing Brits playing dress-up, but mostly acting >> like > caricatures of upper-class Brits of 130 years ago. Nobody wears >> > Asian-style makeup, except for Katisha (the fearsome contralto >> character), > who is made-up Kabuki-style. The G&S Society has a tradition >> of color-blind > casting. No Asian-Americans auditioned for this show, >> there are 38 > Caucasians and 2 Hispanics on stage. There are several >> Asian-Americans on > the stage crew, one in the orchestra pit (a friend of >> mine), and one on the > society's Board of Trustees. >> >> --Peter >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See > http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > > > -- > Mark William Rabiner > Photographer > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See > http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > information _______________________________________________ Leica Users > Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- Mark William Rabiner Photographer http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/