Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/07/19
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I can't (and won't) speak for anyone else but I'd rather be though of as an individual than as a bearded male anglo/austrian. Doug Herr Sacramento http://www.wildlightphoto.com -----Original Message----- >From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >Sent: Jul 19, 2014 5:40 AM >To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >Subject: Re: [Leica] IMG: Protesting "The Mikado" > >I'm writing about how how the silent majority here in the US would presume >to say what's ok for Asians. And other minorities as well. "They should not >be so over sensitive. They should let us define them." What would or should >be insulting to them and what should not. And what people call themselves. >I am pretty clearly writing a pro diversity and individuality message build >on respect for other peoples. >We is me. "We" are the bad guys in the story. And when its explained to me >clearly why the word "we" is objectionable I will of course deny ever having >used it. And will use "Us" instead. > >The problem of course is getting a consensus. I can't claim to speak for >bland people who look like me here in the US and I imagine you can't claim >to speak for all Asians or Japanese people in Canada. We just have our >opinions.We have internet search engines.. > >Its great to hear your opinion on the non offensiveness of The G&S operetta >The Mikado. It would be great if your opinion was part of a real consensus >but I think in the next few years we'll find even more clearly that it is >not. I think we'll find that a great many Asian people are offended by the >play and have been for a long time. As this is not new news its old news.... >We've got this thing called the internet now so its an easy thing to check >out. > >The first 4 Goggles: > >1995 >http://web.stcloudstate.edu/scogdill/mikado/racism.html > >2024 >http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2024050056_mikadosharonpianchancolumn14 >xml.html > >2013 >http://www.nikkeiview.com/blog/2013/05/its-time-to-take-the-offensive-yellow >face-of-the-mikado-off-the-stage/ > >2000 >http://brightlightsfilm.com/30/topsyturvy1.php#.U8pghhzeonY > >" that still leaves one question unanswered: Why would Mike Leigh, known for >his astute films about social issues, revive The Mikado, even though modern >audiences might recoil from the content? As the opera rekindled Gilbert and >Sullivan's partnership and as their fans have treasured this opera most, it >makes sense that Leigh's tribute would center on The Mikado. There's no >obvious way in which he could have distanced himself from the material and >commented on it ironically. But the film embraces the opera too >enthusiastically, as if nothing had changed in 115 years. As this is untrue, >Japanophile viewers of Topsy-Turvy may experience a large disconnect." > > > > >On 7/19/14 7:17 AM, "Ken Iisaka" <ken at iisaka.com> wrote: > >> Who the hell are WE, Mark??? This is one of the most insulting I have >> read on >> LUG. It is as if "WE" do not include the likes of me. Besides, "Asians" >> make >> up about 60% of the global population, who the heck are WE anyway? > >As a US >> resident of Japanese heritage with Canadian citizenship, I never thought >> of >> Mikado as being insulting towards Japanese any more than Madama Butterfly >> is, >> though portraiture of the Japanese culture is certainly na?ve. > >However, there >> had been (and are) movies in particular which are categorically offensive >> because of the intent: Breakfast at Tiffany's being one of the most >> egregious >> and best known example. Compared to this, both Mikado and Madama >> Butterfly are >> quite adorable in their misconception and misunderstanding. > >We do have an >> ugly history, and it is quite inevitable that we have things that are >> offensive to some. Is the "Swedish chef" in Sesame Street offensive to >> Swedes? >> Merchant of Venice to Jews? Finnish in Monty Python? Polish and Newfie >> jokes? >> Yes, but so what? > >I have better things to worry about. > > >Sent from my >> iPhone > >> On Jul 19, 2014, at 2:19 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >> wrote: >> >> The issue is not how WE think about it but what the Asian people >> want. >> If Asian people in what appears to be as in some kind of consensus >> are >> giving the show it a thumbs down than its a play which is more that >> dated it >> should probably not be done. I'm wondering how many if any were in >> the >> audience. >> Flower Drum Song we all thought was a great show but we >> started to figure it >> out earlier on realize is was more than just benignly >> dated and its really >> no longer done any more. I just checked. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_Drum_Song >> I still have my LP somewhere. >> Its about worn out. I can sing the whole show >> for you by heart every verse >> I'm pretty sure. But would be embarrassed to do >> it within earshot of an >> Asian friend. >> " Chop suey, chop suey! >> Good and bad, intelligent, mad, and >> screwy." that was me singing. >> I'm going to have to stare at a whirling >> black cube. >> As much as I hate to say or think it the same might happen with >> "The Mikado" >> which I have also loved for decades and have recently seen in a >> slick >> production in Portland OR. And have often sung along to my CD's of it >> I have >> two different versions of much of it. And pretty much have all the >> lyrics >> memorized. >> "IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO WE AAARE" that was me singing >> just now. And is as >> far as I'm going to go. >> We just don't get to define >> other peoples identity issues. Only our own. I >> should speak for myself. We >> might decide tomorrow that "white people" is >> offensive to our ears and we >> want to be called the "evil beige people". I'm >> sure it would catch on with >> no controversy. >> >> About decade or so ago black people decided in a kind of >> consensus that they >> didn't what to be called black people any more. The >> wanted to go with the >> term "African Americans" Lots of white people had big >> opinions about it on >> tv news shows but in the end everyone knew it was just >> now up to us. It was >> up to them. Turns out the term is still used but way >> less often. Whoopi >> Goldberg said she was not going to change. Nobody wants >> to mess with her. >> That could be it. >> >> >>> On 7/19/14 4:42 AM, "Peter A. >> Klein" <pklein at threshinc.com> wrote: >>> >>> This pair was protesting and >> handing out leaflets in front of the >>> Seattle Gilbert and Sullivan Society's >> production of "The Mikado," which >>> they regard as "Yellowface" and racist. I >> accepted their leaflets, but >>> when I took out my camera, they concealed >> their faces. >>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/24844563 at N04/14689190055/> >>> >> >>> On Monday, a Seattle Times opinion page editor slammed the production, >>> >> which she hadn't seen. This was followed by two radio interviews in >>> which >> she repeated her charges of "Yellowface" and racism. An Internet >>> flamefest >> followed, including calls for a boycott and shutting down the >>> show. There >> were fears that the performance would be disrupted, but that >>> didn't happen >> Friday night, and only these two showed up. >>> >>> If you're interested in >> reading more about what's going on, Google these >>> words: seattle mikado >> gilbert sullivan. You'll find all the relevant >>> stuff on the first two >> pages. >>> >>> Full disclosure: Yours truly is not unbiased. I love Gilbert >> and >>> Sullivan, I love "The Mikado," and I played bassoon in the company >> back >>> in the 1980s. If this were a realistic play with Asian characters >> being >>> played by whites and/or mugging offensive stereotypes, I would be >>> >> sympathetic to the concerns. But that's not what "The Mikado" is. It's >>> >> Brits (or Americans) playing Brits playing dress-up, but mostly acting >>> like >> caricatures of upper-class Brits of 130 years ago. Nobody wears >>> >> Asian-style makeup, except for Katisha (the fearsome contralto >>> character), >> who is made-up Kabuki-style. The G&S Society has a tradition >>> of color-blind >> casting. No Asian-Americans auditioned for this show, >>> there are 38 >> Caucasians and 2 Hispanics on stage. There are several >>> Asian-Americans on >> the stage crew, one in the orchestra pit (a friend of >>> mine), and one on the >> society's Board of Trustees. >>> >>> --Peter >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See >> http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark William Rabiner >> Photographer >> >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See >> http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >> information > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users >> Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > >-- >Mark William Rabiner >Photographer >http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information