Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2015/10/24
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Its interesting with Hasselblad use tripod use is very disparate opinionated more so that a Leica M which is really thought of as a hand held unobtrusive camera. I met many Hassy users having been on the list and before and some never take their cameras off their tripod for anything and some will never put theirs on a tripod. Partly because the big flash they've got hooked up to it does nave a tripod hole. I brought tripods to all my weddings and events for the group shots as did most photogs I saw and plenty of them used more compact 36mm SLR's. And things are happening fast and lots of things are involved. Another use for tripods' was when you shoot a test Polaroid. They ok it. And then you switch backs and shoot the thing with real roll film. The camera has not moved so there's no way they can not pay you. It's their ok on the Polaroid as good as gold.. There is such a thing called a 35mm slide which gets used for slide shows so commeiral photos cant always shoot with their Hassy 's or sheet film. And when we do we often use a tripod because it make for a much better workflow. And we have to get the shot. We often have to stop down quite a bit because no one told our clients about bokeh and how cool it is. They just want to know why stuff in the picture they paid us for is not in focus. Much of the time we're using studio strobes of on camera flash so its not an issue of camera steadiness. Its a dozen other issues of careful shooting. On 10/24/15 5:20 PM, "Frank Filippone" <red735i at verizon.net> wrote: > The difference between taking mostly people shots and landscapes shots is > that the rocks don't move. Rocks usually do not require immediate > spontaneous image clicks. Setup time is available. In which case, why > not a tripod? ( there are always situations, but it is a generalization) > > I should also say that usually I do not use my Leica stuff on a tripod. > Monopod? Sometimes. More with longer lenses? Yes. With a 21mm lens, of > people, probably not. > > If needed, I can hand hold a Leica with 50 at 1/15 of a second. On good > days, 1/8. No IS. That does not mean that I prefer this. It means if I > must, I can. ( I only go to ISO 640 with my M9.) Will people move during > this exposure time? Probably. Will rocks move? Usually not. It works > with > my type of photography. > > Also, my Hasselblad 500Cm with Leaf digital back and 45 degree prism, is > not > exactly the kind of rig that works well with my age and hand holding for > more than a few moments. It works best on a tripod. So do my muscles. > This is the outfit that goes onto a tripod. > > More to the point, the discussion point I brought up was... the BEST image > quality.... which, no matter how good you are, no matter what format you > use, no matter how fast your lenses, you are not as good at holding a > camera > stable as a proper tripod is. IS or not. > > If the rocks don't move! > > Frank Filippone > Red735i at verizon.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: LUG [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On > Behalf > Of Tina Manley > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 1:53 PM > To: Leica Users Group > Subject: Re: [Leica] BIG new Leica > > 99% of what I shoot is hand-held. The rest are shot with the camera > sitting > on a trash-can or table or anything else that is stable. I just don't > carry > tripods around. I used to carry mono-pods when I needed a cane. Now with > my artificial knees, I don't need a cane so I don't usually carry mono-pods > either. I use fast lenses, higher ISOs (fast film in the past), and > breathing techniques. That's usually enough for a candle-lit room in an > adobe house with no windows. > > Tina > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Frank Filippone <red735i at verizon.net> > wrote: > >> Mark.. several of us do not want to spend the money for a M240. >> Thus all the talk about the Sony A7..... and its variants. Or why >> several of use still use M9's. >> >> And the Leica anything (M8,M9,M240, and the Mono versions) are not ISO >> speed demons. They are still WAY under the competitive power curve, >> DSLR or not. >> I consider my M9 no good above ISO 640. YMMV >> >> I still use a tripod... Read Puts on getting the BEST out of your glass, >> it is one of the techniques you must use. Remember, the operative >> word is BEST. >> >> Flimsy tripods are just that, flimsy. Most tripods are up to the job >> of a few pound camera. Others are pure junk. You know this stuff. >> >> Frank Filippone >> Red735i at verizon.net >> >> >> It sounds like you are juggling a truckload of glass adding up to >> serious money which will not make up for the fact that you are using >> an M9 Leicas CCD first out full frame digital M and not a current CMOS M. >> Speed considerations (and people do use tripods) are a thing of the >> past in digital photography nowadays with a normal cruising speed of >> 64,000 two stops over 16,000 and that's just getting warmed up. >> Unless you happen to be shooting a technical anomaly like an M9. >> The plus side Leica is still in business and its finally got it right >> digitally with the current CMOS M. (240) which lets you use the iso' >> s the rest of the serious photog world are using on their DSLR's........ >> >> >> And as I said with digital speed is was more so no longer an issue but >> especially with landscape shooting where tripods are the default. >> Tripod use now is not the tripod use of days gone by. >> They are resin coated light and friendly and the heads are ball head >> variations which leave your hands on the camera its the interface >> between your camera and tripod and makes all the difference. Tripod >> use is much less clunky than it was before. Its not all all clunky >> now. Get a nice little tripod case with strap to sling over your back >> like Robin Hood you won't even know its there. And wear green! And >> steal from the rich and give to the poor. >> >> >> On 10/24/15 3:23 PM, "Paul Roark" <roark.paul at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I added the SUPER ELMAR-M 1:3,4/21mm ASPH to the comparison stack, > below: >>> >>> http://www.paulroark.com/Loxia-v-Leica-21-f28-SEM.tif >>> >>> No doubt the SEM is the sharpest and smallest modern 21. I have the >>> ELMAR-M >>> 24 mm f/3.8 ASPH, which I use as my "reference" wide angle on an M9. >>> The Loxia, at f/2.8, however is faster and has a good 3/4 stop less >>> vignetting/light falloff. >>> >>> I used the Biogon C 21mm on the M9 -- for B&W. (It is not >>> appropriate for color shooting due to bad magenta color at the >>> edges.) It's sharp, but the vignetting was significant -- about >>> like the SEM 21. I found heavily "red filtered" (in Photoshop) blue >>> skies got noticeably more grainy at the edges with the M9. So, that >>> light falloff issue is a relevant factor in the calculus. >>> >>> The WATE is my only good superwide that will fit on the Sony. More >>> speed and better wide open performance is what I'm interested in >>> with the Loxia 21. We'll see. If it's a turkey, it'll be returned. >>> It will not be shipped until December. >>> >>> Paul >>> www.PaulRoark.com >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Frank Filippone >>> <red735i at verizon.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> In my use of the lenses, the 50 ASPH Lux is the best. Period. I >>>> can see the difference. >>>> The 21 and 24 SEM are VERY close to each other. >>>> The WATE is about as good as the 21, side by side, and offers the >>>> ability to have wider if you want/need. Great for stitched >>>> Panoramas. >>>> >>>> Then again, YMMV, and this is all on a M9 body. >>>> >>>> I do not use a 28.. too close to the 35 in angle of view for me. >>>> So no comment on the 28's, ASPH or not. >>>> The 28 Cron was wonderful on the M8.... but that body is gone too. >>>> >>>> I had a 35 ASPH Cron and did not cotton to the lens. I have >>>> friends who love it.. >>>> >>>> The 21 and 24 ASPH Elmarits are all to big physically (BIG front >>>> elements) for travel purposes, given the choice of the SEMs. >>>> Faster, yes, but you need to make it all fit in a small camera bag.... >>>> >>>> If someone is in the mood to buy a 24 ASPH Elmarit, please contact >> me.... >>>> >>>> Frank Filippone >>>> Red735i at verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> I think the Leica 21mm Super-Elmar-M f/ 3.4 ASPH Lens is better! >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/23/15 5:44 PM, "Frank Filippone" <red735i at verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The 21 and 24 SEM are similar to the 50 ASPH Lux (and the WATE!). >>>>> I can pick out images from those lenses from others in my stable.... >>>>> >>>>> It may be that the optical characteristics of the most modern >>>>> lenses are similar.... design tools? Intentional design compromises? >>>>> Purely >>>> chance? >>>>> >>>>> Frank Filippone >>>>> Red735i at verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: LUG [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of John McMaster >>>>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 2:40 PM >>>>> To: 'Leica Users Group' >>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] BIG new Leica >>>>> >>>>> The 21mm SEM beats the Elmarit asph in all areas IMO. I would say >>>>> that the S range is Leica's still lens showcase range ;-) >>>>> >>>>> john >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >>>>> ?Yes, everything is a whole set of compromises. I assume Leica >>>>> and Zeiss will both continue to make optics that also cater to >>>>> those who value >>>> compactness. >>>>> The M line is Leica's current showcase of what it can do. It may >>>>> be that the Loxia line for the Sony is representative of what >>>>> Zeiss can do for that platform. >>>>> >>>>> Since wide angle optics are the main area of my concern regarding >>>>> the Sony line, I was curious just how much of a penalty that >>>>> platform will pay. To show this, I made a Tiff file with a cutout >>>>> of >> the Leica v. >>>>> Zeiss Loxia 21mm >>>>> f/2.8 entries into this competition shown on different layers. >>>>> The images are adjusted to equalize size and distance from the > sensor/film. >>>>> Some might find looking at the two similar optics interesting. >>>>> Download the Tiff from >>>>> http://www.paulroark.com/Loxia-v-Leica-21-f28.tif >>>>> >>>>> As to relative sharpness, all we have are MTF curves that are not >>>>> necessarily comparable. If they are to be believed, the Zeiss >>>>> wins by a hair. My experience is that Leica is more conservative >>>>> in these, and >>>> in >>>>> the real world Leica might well win by a hair. The main and more >>>>> objective measure of performance that could be important is that, >>>>> consistent with the performances we see in other wide angle >>>>> lenses, the more retrofocus optic has less vignetting. Zeiss is >>>>> claiming light falloff at f/2.8 that is equal to the Leica at f/8. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> www.PaulRoark.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark William Rabiner >> Photographer >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > -- > Tina Manley > www.tinamanley.com > tina-manley.artistwebsites.com > http://www.alamy.com/stock-photography/3B49552F-90A0-4D0A-A11D-2175C937AA91/ > Tina+Manley.html > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- Mark William Rabiner Photographer http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/