Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2015/11/30

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Subject: [Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux
From: rgacpa at gmail.com (Robert Adler)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:05:10 -0800
References: <CA+yJO1D=cphW6jKE02H0j-oyU7gYq_kkXUH6JHij+rV+puQ-TA@mail.gmail.com> <017501d12bb5$85c8a850$9159f8f0$@mcmaster.fr> <CA+yJO1A8e_erixz0vh9s7FriwXNWDy1nFPTNkh8xvf4qHRAz6Q@mail.gmail.com> <017701d12bb6$c9688ed0$5c39ac70$@mcmaster.fr> <CA+yJO1DLywnQeF1d+9YFaBcmWiyci9JSL5fw5QLGgUB814g2EQ@mail.gmail.com> <017c01d12bba$61673440$24359cc0$@mcmaster.fr> <CA+yJO1BRgJQEQ6O-u07yW95jMZ0-ty0Ms2S3q2Q_aCcMDW1yKw@mail.gmail.com> <BLU173-DS207C11255C7351ED7D594CB80F0@phx.gbl> <CA+yJO1DB_8HOTFhJ7rUoCjUCz-k4aeR-XpCJW_1-TFk5YbM+6A@mail.gmail.com> <D7D49425-0744-4139-A391-42662E74CF1B@gmail.com> <DB948DF6-285E-4684-B255-624E7F24D968@gmail.com>

Oh? That wasn't part of the Christmas/Anniversary package??
;-)

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Tmanley <tmanley at gmail.com> wrote:

> I do!! I've finished the manual and am practicing everything in real life.
> It's pretty intuitive. More complicated than the M's but less complicated
> than the Fuji!!  Now to take it on a trip!
>
> Tina
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 30, 2015, at 9:49 PM, Bob Adler <rgacpa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > To me the most important piece of information you can give, other than
> if you're loving the camera, is what page of the manual you're on and is it
> the first, second or third pass! ;-)
> >
> > There are lots of folks out there already doing tripod tests of X vs Y,
> etc. for Tina the big question is do you love it?
> >
> > Bob Adler
> > Robert Adler Photography
> > www.robertadlerphotography.com
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks, Aram.  It's nice to know somebody is listening ;-)
> >>
> >> Tina
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Aram Langhans <leica_r8 at 
> >>> hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I was a bit late to see these and all I got was unknown photo errors.
> >>> Tina informed me she took them down because of all the complaining
> about
> >>> her methods.  I think that is pretty sad.  She is without a doubt one
> of
> >>> the most knowledgeable and talented photographer in this group.  And
> she
> >>> was spending the time to share her experiences, almost in real time.  I
> >>> would love to meet her one day and learn from her.  If you don't want
> to
> >>> see what she is doing, just don't look.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry, Tina.  Don?t let those curmudgeons get to  you.  If they don?t
> want
> >>> to see what you are doing they can ignore you.  I am sure there are
> plenty
> >>> of people who do like to see how your are testing/learning how to use
> your
> >>> new camera.   I surely was one.  It is interesting to see how a
> different
> >>> person goes through the process of learning something.  One can learn
> just
> >>> as much from the process as from the actual outcome.  As a teacher I
> would
> >>> think a class was a failure if I myself did not learn from my students
> a
> >>> thing or two about the teaching process, or even the subject matter
> itself
> >>> when they would ask questions I had not though of.  It is so good to
> have
> >>> someone like you going through the steps of learning the SL, and
> posting
> >>> your results.  It then brings up questions that people have and you
> have
> >>> answered them.  Reading a review from someone you don't know is so
> static.
> >>> You can't ask questions and get answers quickly.  They might not even
> have
> >>> the camera anymore to try things and answer the questions.
> >>>
> >>> So, I would encourage you to keep posting so those of us who are
> >>> interested can learn from the process as well as from the results, and
> just
> >>> let the curmudgeons be.
> >>>
> >>> Aram
> >>>
> >>> PS.  I don't think I have ever used the word curmudgeons in a real
> >>> conversation.  Thanks for the opportunity, as sad as it might me.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Tina Manley
> >>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 2:01 PM
> >>> To: Leica Users Group
> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux
> >>>
> >>> Because several people asked me to and I was trying to be co-operative!
> >>>
> >>> Tina
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:59 PM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.fr>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Then why bother testing or comparing? Just practice for what you
> bought it
> >>>> for ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> john
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd much rather practice focusing on chickens' eyes.  That's a more
> useful
> >>>> test for the kind of photography I do!  Ferns and peeling paint and
> rocks
> >>>> that don't move are not my thing ;-) To me, whether the corners are in
> >>>> focus
> >>>> or not is not nearly as important as whether I can get sharp eyes in a
> >>>> moving subject.  With the SL, my hit rate is much higher and getting
> even
> >>>> higher as I learn to use it.  The real test will be when I take it on
> a
> >>>> trip.  I'm hoping right now with all of this testing to be able to
> use the
> >>>> camera automatically without having to stop and think about which
> button
> >>>> or
> >>>> which wheel to use for the setting I want.  The settings are pretty
> >>>> intuitive but they do take more practice and learning than the M
> cameras,
> >>>> but not nearly as much as the Fuji ones!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Tina
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:33 PM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.fr>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A more useful test is where the subject is near infinity and should
> be
> >>>>> in focus, see what the corners look like with the 35/2.0, that is
> >>>>> where the SL may be weaker than the M... Tripods are the only way to
> >>>>> do decent A-B testing, that is not real photography ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> john
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I hate tripods.  I did put the camera on the rail of the porch. I'd
> be
> >>>>> glad to send anybody a full DNG or blow up any section to 100% and
> post
> >>>> it.
> >>>>> You are probably right about the lens weight; however, I did carry
> >>>>> around a Canon 1DMII with an 85/1.2 lens for over a year before Leica
> >>>>> finally came out with a digital camera.  That combination weighs 2623
> >>>>> grams and is not nearly as easy to handle as the SL and 24-90 at 2095
> >>>> grams.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tina
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:24 PM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.fr>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> That you could/should have used a tripod to get similar framing ;-)
> >>>>>> You, looking at the DNGs, are the only one who is likely to see a
> >>>>>> real difference..... There will be no native SL lens weighing less
> >>>>>> than twice (more likely 3x) the weight of a 35/2.0....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> john
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I took some photos in the rain to compare the SL with the R19/2.8,
> >>>>>> the SL with the 35/2.0 Summicron and the M240 with the Summicron.
> >>>>>> As I was carrying the cameras out to the deck, I passed the kitchen
> >>>>>> scale so I weighed them.  The SL with no lens weighed 966 grams.
> >>>>>> The M240 with the
> >>>>>> 35/2.0 attached weighed 961 grams, so not a huge difference.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When I attach the M lenses, the SL automatically recognized the
> >>>>>> coded lenses with no further attention from me.  When I attach the R
> >>>>>> lenses, I go to the menu and tell it which R lens is attached.  It
> >>>>>> recognizes the lens but does not record the correct aperture.  I
> >>>>>> know I took several at F/8 and used hyperfocal focusing, but none of
> >>>>>> them came up as having f/8 for the aperture.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The SL is much easier to focus.  I tried out both the magnifying in
> >>>>>> the EVF and the focus peaking.  Both work fine but the magnified EVF
> >>>>>> is much easier to see.  You press the bottom right button once and
> >>>>>> it zooms to 100% in the EVF, press it twice and it zooms to 200%.
> >>>>>> Focus and touch the shutter button and it zooms back out and takes
> the
> >>>> photo.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> With the auto-focus SL lens, there are several focusing formats to
> >>>>>> choose from in the SL and  you can also touch the screen and have it
> >>>>>> focus there or move the toggle switch (they call it the joystick)
> >>>>>> next to the EFG to choose a focus spot.  I find the screen and the
> >>>>>> toggle switch to be easiest and fastest.  But these are all manually
> >>>>>> focused with M and R lenses.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The first one is an experiment with the Noctilux last night using
> >>>>>> the magnified EVF to focus on Tom's eyelashes instead of the glasses
> >>>> frame.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/image/161961923
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The next three are straight from the camera as DNGs, converted to
> >>>>>> jpegs as they are exported with no other adjustments.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Leica SL with 19/2.8 Elmarit R:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/161961755
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Leica SL with 35/2.0 Summicron M:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/161961757
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Leica M240 with 35/2.0 Summicron M:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/161961758
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I did some bracketed exposures and merged the photos for HDR with
> >>>>>> each camera and each lens.  These are adjusted for color and
> exposure:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/leica_sl&page=7
> >>>>>> <http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/leica_sl&page=7>*
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The SL will also bracket the 3 exposures as DNGs and make a merged
> >>>>>> jpeg from them automatically.  I found those needed more adjusting
> >>>>>> than making them myself.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tina
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Tina Manley
> >>> http://
> >>> <
> >>>
> http://t.sidekickopen29.com/e1t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7lC8dDMPbW2n0x6l2B9nMJN7t5XYgfmKYPW4WzBHl3Mx_9dW3LqWkM56dQ1Jf7P8b5b02?t=http%3A%2F%2Ftina-manley.artistwebsites.com%2F&si=6038418186567680&pi=64160498-998b-45c0-eccd-67b507a25be0
> >>> www.tinamanley.com
> >>> http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tina Manley
> >> http://
> >> <
> http://t.sidekickopen29.com/e1t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7lC8dDMPbW2n0x6l2B9nMJN7t5XYgfmKYPW4WzBHl3Mx_9dW3LqWkM56dQ1Jf7P8b5b02?t=http%3A%2F%2Ftina-manley.artistwebsites.com%2F&si=6038418186567680&pi=6b1ea160-ee1c-486b-e489-fe3b18e97cd8
> >
> >> www.tinamanley.com
> >> http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
Bob Adler
www.robertadlerphotography.com


In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from john at mcmaster.fr (John McMaster) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from john at mcmaster.fr (John McMaster) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from john at mcmaster.fr (John McMaster) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from leica_r8 at hotmail.com (Aram Langhans) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from rgacpa at gmail.com (Bob Adler) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)
Message from tmanley at gmail.com (Tmanley) ([Leica] IMGS: Comparing SL and M240 and 19R and Noctilux)