Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1998/12/22
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Hi, Francesco Well, I haven't used an R8, but it won't change my mind....what it is, I'm sure, is an incredibly fine ELECTRONIC Slr, with the best optics (esp.mechanically) in the world. This is what ALL the Leica reflexes are/were -- EXTREMELY fine instruments for the best glass in the best mounts available. Also, some of the finest metering systems...... BUT!!!! I am fundamentally a different kind of consumer/photographer. I prefer the LEAST in a machine of any kind. In audio, I use homebrew vacuum tube amplifiers with minimal componentry in the signal path. In cars, I have a l962 truck and a simple, minimal Nissan four-banger-- and I wish I could take off 70% of its parts and still have it run. I use old Collins radio equipment. So no, an R8 would be my WORST nightmare in a camera, but this is not a criticism of those who use/love them..... In photography, I prefer a simple camera (an M body has too much in it for me, but it's the least you can buy-- same with the old standard prism Nikons-- take off the self-timer, MLU, MD coupling, etc. and I'll be happier. On the M4, get rid of the ST, Preview, 135 frame, 75mm if it has one (too long for 50, too short for 90!) m-sync, auto reset frame counter, etc......... now you get the idea. For meters, I like the old Spectra, Sekonic, etc. or (surprise!) the Luna pro digital F!! -- I either use an incident meter (zone V on V - screw the rest) or if I'm in a contemplative mood, the selective measurement of various subject areas (most slr "spot" meters are WAY too wide to accomplish this from shooting position). Although not a problem with Leica (so far) -- any other Electronic SLRs are at the mercy of their vendor's service -- and we know that the major japanese mfgrs only support their products for 3-7 years after they're discontinued. The old ones can be nursed along much easier by independent repair than the F4-EOS etc...... wait five years and listen to nikon tell you they no longer "support" the F4- or take your EOS 620 (the first "pro" body) in for repair in 2002! see what they tell you. I GUARANTEE my F/F2 will still be shooting hundreds of rolls/ year then. I believe that Leica still supports most all of the SLRs -- kudos to them -- but IF they discontinue service on the R5 or IF they go out of business, I'll still be getting service on my old Nikons (if they ever fail in the first place). I'm THOUROUGHLY impressed with the Leicas -- no finer feel/finish in the business-- but with the CONSTANT complaints of owners on this group and when I was in the sales business, I can't/won't consider them one of the "finest" == all things considered......I don't believe that Nikon F/F2 had a failure rate of more than 1-2% in the first year or two of ownership (exc. possibly that damn photomic -- but that ain't the camera I referred to anyway) This is hardly a scientific survey, but it seem that with people who actually use their Leicas, (this group) rather than putting them in the closet, a significant number (20+ %) have problems in the first year or two.......Both R-series and newer Ms -- I simply can't consider them "among the finest"....no matter how they look/feel!! But it's your money, and your hassle, and I have no right to tell you how to spend it or criticize you for doing so. Different strokes/ different folks, and my position is in the (admitted) EXTREME minority. However, this group tends to seek out the "finest"-- regardless of age and obsolescence -- therefore, I stick by my original post. Happy tummy-stuffing days, Walt in Denton On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Francesco wrote: > Have you used an R8 Walt? It will change your mind. > > Francesco > > > > > At 05:05 PM 12/21/98 , Walter S Delesandri wrote: > >Hello, Brian > >Today my wife gave me a new military style "shooting" jacket-- > >it's about 25 deg F here, so I tried it out early......Now I > >must see how it repels flames..... > > > >I might be able to help you answer your questions....the answers > >won't be popular, I'll be labeled a heretic and an unwashed heathen, > >but that's ok, as I'm right and they're wrong....oh, BTW, I'm modest, > >too....... > > > >Good RFDR cameras: (in order of preference) Leica M4, M2, M3, Nikon > >SP, S3, Canon VI, 7, P, L. End of list. > >Good SLR cameras: Nikon F/F2 w/standard prism. Nikkormat FT2-3. > >Nikon F3 (maybe). End of list. > > > >Don't believe it? Try to buy one of the above cameras. Only the > >lesser Nikons (Nikkormat, F3) will be available at any >SANE< price. > >All the other cameras will range in price from above their original > >NEW price to SEVERAL TIMES their original price. I ain't talking > >collector's pieces here -- try to buy them from people who are USING > >them.....ain't gonna happen..... > > > >Oh, BTW, I've used Leica, Leicaflex, R (including R4S), Canon (RF/SLR) > >Nikon (RF/SLR), Contax (RF), Pentax, Exacta, Prominents, Minolta > >(CL/SLR), you name it, I've forgotten some of them.....AND I've repaired > >most of the above. > > > >After "playing" with dozens of cameras (systems?) -- I'm back to only > >owning gear I >USE< i.e., Leica M4s and "real" Nikons (F-series, pre > >AF)....I'll add an M6 again, but I'll buy it expecting to have to > >work on it. > > > >Happy Holidays!! > >Walt > > > >On > >Mon, > >21 > >Dec 1998, Brian J. Given wrote: > > > >> Greetings from a new member and old Leica user! > >> > >> I have enjoyed lurking for the last week and want to wish you all a very > >> Happy Holiday > >> > >> I would also like to ask your opinions regarding the reliability of R-4S's > >> and the reproduction potential of the film scanners like the Nikon LS-2000 > >> > >> 1. I have not had very good luck with new Leicas. Years ago I bought two > new > >> M-series to add to my M-3, M-2 and M-4. Unfortunately I bought a pair of > >> M4-2's which did not appear to equal my M-4 in quality of build and they > >> certainly were not its equal in resale value. I seem to have made the same > >> mistake when I decided to trade the delights of M-series in for the > >> practicality (for me that is .. I'm an anthropologist and some automaticity > >> comes in handy!) of the R-series. I traded for a pair of new R4-S bodies > >> and collection of lenses. I am very happy with the optics (including the > >> Minolta<G>) but have had some reliability problems with the bodies. With > >> only light amateur usage I have had to send in each body because the LED > >> readouts went berserk - even with new batteries the LED's would show either > >> top shutter speed or off the bottom of the scale with no gradation in > >> between, rendering the body unusable. I now am about to send in a body for > >> the THIRD time for repair and am becoming discouraged. Now I have NEVER > had > >> a Japanese camera that needed repairs and, even when I was a professional > >> photographer, rarely needed cameras repaired. So this experience with the > >> R4-S's is very unusual for me. A couple of dealers have told me that the > >> R-4's have had electronic reliability problems but the Leica distributor > >> here says that this was only true for about 1000 R-4s in early production > >> and never for the R4-S. I don't know whether I should get rid the > R4-S's or > >> not. Ironically, I bought the R4-S instead of the R4 because I figured > that > >> a simpler camera would be more reliable. Is the distributor correct?<G!> > >> > >> 2. I am looking at film scanners. I've tried the Nikon LS-2000 with some > >> Kodachromes I shot with M-series equipment in India but am only just > >> beginning to explore the limits. I want to use this equipment for two > >> purposes. (a) I want to digitize the Kodachromes before they can fade > >> further - i.e. I want to use CD's as a storage medium for digitized and > >> therefore relatively permanent images. and (b) I want to replace my > darkroom > >> with a digital "darkroom" and make all my prints using this medium IF I can > >> get professional quality. What I am not clear about is whether a 2700 dpi, > >> 12-bit scanner like the Nikon, used with Adobe Photoshop will be good > enough > >> quality to replace my darkroom or whether I should wait until the next > >> generation of scanner (perhaps 5400 dpi?) is available. Does it make sense > >> to go digital? > >> > >> Thanks everyone! > >> > >> Brian Given > >> > > >