Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1998/12/31
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Respectfully submitted by Walt: >BULLSHIT< !!!! Pentax produced the K1000 for many years after discontinuing the Spotmatic and K-line....until the tooling wore out and was uneconomical to reproduce......but until then, the mechanical complexity and quality of workmanship was VERY Leica-like...I know, I worked on both for years....No, it wasn't worth continuing a $200 camera......but for $800, Pentax would churn out K-1000s forever. The leica M-body remains 90% the same for 40 years.......they could damn sure produce an M4-something for $800 and make a profit. No ST, no PV, (already) cheapened RFDR -- What the hell is so "special" about building an M that's different from a K1000? Put Polycarbonate covers on the damn thing, if that's the problem... and for god's sake, put titanium curtains in the f****** things, all of 'em. Don't give me the shit about the RFDR and final adjustment.....the parts can be produced just like any other machine parts and the adjustment on new ones is so poor that I could contract my 78 year old mother and my 8 year old daughter to do the QC---- with considerable improvement over current production. The precision is in the final adjustment.....MANY companies have produced damn fine parts and a simple, reliable three-axis focal-plane shutter is now a textbook design. For example: how many new Ms are sold per day in the US? I make about $30,000 a year. If you sent me completed but non-adjusted RFDR/Shutter Ms, with the covers off, I guarantee I can adjust the RFDRs and shutters on 10-15 per EASY day's work....at least far better than what we're getting off the line.....at 200 work days per year (about what I do) how much is your cost per camera? How many fair/mediocre techs do they have working? (an honest brainstorm, I don't have the answer.) No, economics don't explain it away......the Pentax K1000 (or their new one, whatever it's called) and the Nikon FM-2, and the Olympus OM-whatever all are as "complex" as an M -- they ain't too damn complicated. As for the metering, that cheap assed little Cosina/Nikon FM-10 has the same metering......and IT has to index the maximum/taking aperture of the lens!!! (as do all the others) The damn M6 meters STOPPED DOWN!!! with a FIXED cell on a damn little spot on the first curtain.....only ISO/ASA and Speed need to be entered into the equation.......and all the others learned how to combine the SS/ASA dial so that ONE variable resistance value combined both ISO/SS information!!! that leaves only F-stop, and the damn thing meters STOPPED DOWN!!! ---Leica "engineering"??? They're about 25 years late with that BS, as usual...... The only justification for these prices is superb finish and final assembly/adjustment......the first slipped drastically to BELOW japanese standards 20 years ago, and the latter is nonexistent, even when compared to a K-1000......check the speeds, accuracy of focus, and parallelism of curtain bars on 100 Pentaxes and 100 out-of-the-box Ms from the last few years...... I could see these prices for the fit, finish, and finesse on the late M3-earlyM4 PLUS inflation......they'd be a bargain.....but that's NOT what we're getting. Nice, but not up to that standard. I'd take my M4 out on a job by itself.......but I ain't taking the M4P or M6 >without< the M4 as a backup......don't trust 'em. So I've vented again, Cheers, Walt On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Bud Cook wrote: > Walt, > I didn't realize these were your humble opinions. I thought you were just > trolling and I nearly fired off a rebuttal. > BTW, I hope you understand that the only way Leica could substantially > reduce the price of the M6 is to drastically reduce the labor involved in > making it. Taking out some electronics doesn't do diddly squat to reduce > product cost. It would appear that a lot of folks could use a lesson in > economics.... oops there I go again. > Happy New Year and keep those zingers coming:-) > Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Walter S Delesandri <walt@jove.acs.unt.edu> > To: Leica Users Group <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 1998 7:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Apples and Oranges > > > >Dear Eric/Pascal, > > > >"OPINION", my friends......repeat slowly, "OPINION"!!!!! > [Snip] > >Walt > > > >