Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/07/02

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: decisisve moment question on PAW ?
From: "Mārtiņš Zelmenis" <martin@lrpv.lv>
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:47:33 +0200

WOW,

IMHO it's a bit harsh. I know people see things differently, and this seems
to be the case.

I can only repeat myself -  I was and am serious - I like the the
spontaneity about the picture, and so the bright number seems essential to
the composition. It doesn't offend me in the least that the bright patch
stands out as it does. Nothing staged or awkward about the shot, but a slice
of life; not a <decisive moment>, but a real photo, smth. more than <just a
snapshot>; IMHO Leicas were made to capture pictures exactly like this one.

I also wonder if the people in the picture would take any offense - and the
way the shot is presented - I cant find both of them underexposed.


Martin


Okay - Time to be blunt.:-0 (As we all know, we post photos asking for
honest comment and criticism)- (Sorry, Rob)

This is not a "GOOD" photo. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination an
HCB "decisive moment." And it certainly isn't an FOM photo - I, II, or C. It
is an improperly exposed party snap. Period. As Ted pointed out, the light
from the flash is dumped onto the foreground, blowing out the light colored
items and leaving both the woman and the man underexposed. All the photo
tells us is that the man isn't feeling well - one assumes he's drunk - or is
very tired, and the woman is looking at a little flag, or is waving it. So
what? We don't see anything in the photo indicating that it has anything to
do with soccer, the World Cup, the Invasion of the Faulklands, or the
election of Margaret Thatcher. Nothing, in other words, to give it any kind
of context or meaning. If one knew these two people, this would be the kind
of moderately amusing photo one might hand them as a 60 Minute 4x6,
expecting them to titter in embarrassment as they tore it in half.

B. D.




- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Mārtiņš
Zelmenis
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:10 AM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: decisisve moment question on PAW ?


OH.
I wouldn't call it <a decisive moment>, too, but the picture IS GOOD! And
largely it's the sign that makes it. Most certainly I like it as it is.

Martin


- -----Original Message-----
From: Ted Grant <tedgrant@shaw.ca>
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Date: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: decisisve moment question on PAW ?


B. D. Colen wrote:
>>> Just wondering:
> What's decisive about the moment? What makes this an outstanding
photograph?<<

> robmellor showed his::
>PAW 26
> >
> > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=850786
>
>Alastair Firkin @ work  responded:
> You caught this one at the decisive moment: looks a good FOM2 shot to
me.<<<

Hi B.D.
I wondered myself what was so decisive when I saw Alastair's comment. ( no
offence Alistair ) Sure there's a moment of what looks like a some what
sodden human and one smiling waving a flag,  accompanied by a very flashed
#15 table sign, which your eye must fight before you get to the people.

Yes there's the moment of the flag waving woman, but even she doesn't look
like she's really into it and the guy looks like he's close to out of it.
maybe a pint too many. ;-) But it's the sign that's an eye blocker and takes
the picture down.

What would I have done in this situation?

Probably been working available light if at all possible in B&W, at 3200 or
higher if there was any chance of decent exposures. And if it were necessary
to use flash I'd have bounced it and still worked at the higher film speeds
to squeeze every possible once of light from the flash bouncing back to the
tables. That would've softened the sign and highlights a little while
lifting the lighting level throughout..

Before posting as a PAW I'd have burned down the sign and attended
highlights to at least give the couple a stronger meaning.

Now for the guys who know how to Photoshop very very well..... (not me)  I'd
have removed the sign all together! ;-) I know, I know that's cheating....
;-) however that kind of manipulation is done every day around the world in
removing slightly annoying things like signs and other tid bits. :-)

So there you go eh. ;-)

ted
Ted Grant Photography Limited
www.islandnet.com/~tedgrant


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