Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/12/22
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Daniel, Your country has interesting customs that you have well explained. First, in most parts of the US, private property is just that, private. I have been run off at almost gunpoint from some places in Texas. I wasn't threatened, but the 357/Ruger mini 14 was plainly visible. Part of this makes sense as in this country, if you are the landholder you are at least partially responsible to completely responsible for what happens on your land. Meaning that if someone falls and breaks their leg on your trail it could be your fault. Different societies, different rules apply. As to the mall thing, one of our posters and your post hint at what is going on in malls. Some lawsuits and legal opinions have made the malls less than private property. Your example does in fact happen at which point the patrons who actually spend money quit going to that mall and the mall declines to oblivion. Getting on my soapbox a bit, when someone who doesn't pay the taxes, maintenance, power, and light bills starts to tell the group who does do the above how the property should be used not good things happen. Don dorysrus@mindspring.com Here in Sweden, when it comes to "allemansrätt", it means more or less the area of land around your house that have fenced in. Allemansrätt is a "right", not a "law". It presupposes a certain amount of common sense and that presupposition has worked for a few hundred years. Problems turn up when people from other countries without the same right come here. They tend not to use common sense and do things that do disturb the owners' privacy. It's usually just a problem-in-passing. With time, everyone gets a feel for it. But this connection with malls with private property and the use of arguments "if some comes into your home ..." don't really make much sense to me, or at least seem flawed. Let's say, like Ted explains, that you want to do a special on the Christmas holiday spirit at a mall. You have to get in touch with the PR people as Ted explains and seems to feel that is the way it has to be, out of respect for their property. Let's say the mall in in a posh outer suburb but that there are communication lines with the inner-city scum so that they turn up at the mall and bother these beautiful people out in the burbs. So the owners of the private property start barring certain elements from their malls. They hurt the neighborhood, so to say. Now this would be news. Would the journalist have to go to the PR people of the mall and ask their permission to do an article on racial discrimination at the mall? I mean, I can envision families in certain areas of the US who would not let a black man cross the threshold of their homes. That's their private choice. Do mall owners, since analogies with the private home were being used, have the same rights to bar certain non-wasps from their private property? Now I would be able to understand if the malls charged admission and the purchase of the admission ticket worked de facto as an acceptance of the rules, a contract of sort. But that isn't the case, is it? Best, Daniel Ridigns Lindome Sweden, Oslo Norway On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 frank.dernie@btinternet.com wrote: > The definition of "a yard" varies greatly depending where one is from. In England - at least the parts I have lived - the land attached to the house is always refered to as a garden, however it is arranged. A yard would assume concreted over or at least some sort of hard surface for work use for example farm yard or builders yard. I have never heard the word yard used in England to describe the land associated with the house or the garden. > cheers > Frank > > > from: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RUBEN_BL=C6DEL?= <ruben@rhodos.dk> > > date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:24:17 > > to: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > subject: Re: [Leica] Inspired but arrested > > > > Daniel > > > > The "allemansrätt" is one of the best things of Sweden ! The only part were I have encountered problems is the difinition of "a yard" - most people, many Swedes, think of a yard as something with trimmed gras, flowers and a nice little white fence were I in my Little Torp (very small hous in the woods in Sweden) love to have my yard growing close to wild - does encounter some funny situations though most of the time, people tend to hurry away if the see me walking around half nacked with a weelbarrel - regards and happy christmas - ruben > > > > > > > > Daniel Ridings wrote: > > > > >The whole idea of a public place ... because it is, anyone and everyone is > > >welcome to be there, can be subject to private whims and not the same laws > > >that govern other public places. My definition of public places is not > > >"somewhere financed by tax-payers' money". > > > > > >We had a similar discussion in Gothenburg. There is a movement to publish > > >high quality magazines. These are then given to people who would otherwise > > >be pan-handling. They sell them instead of begging. > > > > > >One "mall" or "private place" tried to run them off. I forget the whole > > >process (I knew it was so absurd to call a mall "private" that I didn't > > >even pay much attention). > > > > > >We have something in Sweden called "allemansrätt" (every-man's-right). It > > >is not possible to put up a sign "No trespassing". It's not a law, it's > > >just a tradition right going back as far as anyone can remember, at least > > >the 1500's. > > > > > >According to "allemansrätt" I may go out pick berries, mushrooms, flowers, > > >fallen limbs (to make wreathes, for example. You can't cut down a tree, > > >but you can take branches from trees that have already fallen) or just > > >walk around. I can do this as long as I do not disturb the privacy of the > > >owner ... that is, I can't walk into their yard and pick flowers, but I > > >can go anywhere else on their land. I can take pictures, I can start small > > >fires (with discretion), I can camp out all night on their land without > > >asking. > > > > > >To say I can't take a picture in a mall. > > > > > >Not only wierd, but pure stupidity. I wonder where that idea comes from? > > > > > >Daniel > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, B. D. Colen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>What's so weird? > > >> > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > >>[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Daniel > > >>Ridings > > >>Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 5:36 PM > > >>To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > >>Subject: Re: [Leica] Inspired but arrested > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>After all, a Mall isn't like walking down the street, it's privately > > >>> > > >>> > > >>owned > > >> > > >> > > >>>and controlled by the rules and regulations set by the owners and no > > >>>amount of posturing, my rights etc., are going to let you off the > > >>>hook. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>Wierd, really wierd. > > >> > > >>Daniel > > >>-- > > >>To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > >> > > >>-- > > >>To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >-- > > >To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > -- > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html