Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/02/23
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I witnessed countless lies and deceptions on behalf of various governments in campaigns. Lost my respect for news reporting a long time ago. Recall clearly that during a tour we delivered some cargo close to a major seaport in the UAE. To my suprise after getting home in a few days ,there had been high level discussions about the difficulty of transporting the lot to it,s final destination.The troops at the port. It was the start of an airlift and rapid deployment division. However knowing the region quite well,we knew that one could just drive there via 8 lane motorway. Arrogance of government i suppose. Medals might be nice when given by something you trust and even then would you ever wear them? simon jessurun > Oh Ted- I was in Bosnia with our Canadian troops in December-- embedded so > to speak. I wore a helmet, had body armour and gas mask and everywhere I > went an armed guard. The only conditions set by the military was identifying > specific operations and locations. We had full access to all our troops. We > lived with them, flew in helicopters, rode light armoured vehicles and went > on weapons searches in the mountains. The one time we were stopped was over > the suicide of a soldier. Then we were cut off from filing home until next > of kin notified, then we could do our job. suicides are not usually > published in any paper. As for my personal protection, the last time I was > in Bosnia a drunkin muslim with AK47 shot at my reporter and I just to scare > us. There was no military orders on what we reported. Perhaps the Canadian > military is more open than the US military. > As for the issue of medals. I was told that since I have been on > peacekeeping missions to Cyprus(2), Kuwait/Irag, and Bosnia(2) I may qualify > for a peacekeeping medal for time in theatre. After all the civilian > contractors working for the military in Bosnia and Afghanistan are getting > them. > > Cheers, > Kevin Argue > > > From: Ted Grant <tedgrant@shaw.ca> > > Reply-To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:10:50 -0800 > > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > Subject: Re: [Leica] Embedded Brit journalists will receive Iraq Campaign > > medal > > > > Dante said quite firmly: > > > >>>> But it's quite another thing to characterize going into a war zone as an > >> embedded journalist as some kind of "I'm a government b-tch" or "toeing > > the > >> party line" exercise When all of you get off your fat sedentary ar$es and > > into > >> a combat zone, you can talk about who's being cowed. For goodness sake, > > you're > >> in an office or somewhere writing posts at 11am on a workday. You're not > >> riding in a tank or a jeep, sucking down dust, getting shot at, or > > carrying > >> tons of equipment. And frankly, it takes some major brass bearings to go > > into > >> a combat zone at all - much less with a camera instead of a gun. I can > > tell > >> you that were it me in a place where I didn't look much like the locals > > and > >> everyone was shooting all around, I would want an M-16 instead of an > > M6.<<< > > > > Dante mon ami, > > These embedded people were only let in on the basis if they were good boys > > and girls and didn't say anything that would make the military and certainly > > not the government look bad!!! And certainly not cause any embarrassing > > questions. > > > > And as far as being shot at and shelled and pissing my pants from fear with > > only a camera in my hand and a couple hanging on my neck I feel I've got all > > the right to say what I want about this nonsense of "embedded bull shit!" > > > > The only reason this embedded crap came about was the military and the > > government didn't want "media " running about the country side making > > comments that could jeopardize the actions taken as they did in the wide > > open world of Nam. > > > >>> And frankly, it takes some major brass bearings to go into a combat zone > > at all - much less >>with a camera instead of a gun. <<<<< > > > > Well all of us who've done it are a little bit crazy! And having brass > > bearings? Nope it's lack of fear before we go! And they don't shoot > > photographers do they? ;-) Then you find out! > > > > And yes maybe getting killed, loosing ones hearing, eating dust, not bathing > > in that beautiful hot shower every morning and all the other exciting stuff > > of covering a war doesn't deter one once the bug bites. And I don't have any > > sympathy for any of them, been there, done it and nobody gave me any > > sympathy and that's th life of covering awar. > > > > However, anyone covering a war situation is somewhat crazy........ that > > includes yours truly. It's always built up as some exciting thrilling home > > town event and quite frankly until one gets into the shit, that's the way > > everyone feels. And the first time yer face down and the stuff is flying > > around you........ trust me it ain't home town fun anymore! > > > > And every time I give a lecture to young student photographers I tell it > > just like it is. And you know what? I know none of them listen to me simply > > because when my first war opportunity came along if anyone told me it was > > possible to get killed I'd never have believed them. Hey man this was my > > break to do a war! it goes with being a photojournalist and believing all > > the great stuff of Capa, Nachtwey, Eddie Adams, and the many other dead > > brothers. > > > > But sorry if one is stupid enough to cover one, one can die in one second, > > but that's part of being stupid enough to cover a war. You never think about > > it, you just take pictures of things that motivate you. > > > >>>> And I'm sorry - someone remind me of how Capa bought it - embedded with > >> soldiers? Not like he was wandering around Asia by himself. <<<<, > > > > Well he was with the soldiers because that's where the action is. But he > > wasn't embedded as the Gulf action people as he could come and go at his > > pleasure. And yes he bought it because he took off on his own and walked > > into a mined area. Bang yer dead! After all the close calls he had, it was > > just his time. > > > > That's the way it is...... your time comes up even after you've done lots of > > them whether walking about or riding in a jeep heading to war. > > > >> And let's not forget that Nachtwey (put your tongues away) and his editor > > Weisskopf were > >> themselves the guests of the military (that was a Humvee there were riding > > in).<<< > > > > So? And I rode in jeeps and weapon carriers but I was free to photograph > > pretty well any place I could get to. Oh yeah and a free ride in choppers > > got me a ride, but not told what I could and couldn't take pictures of. > > > >> Your heroes Duncan, Capa, Smith, &c were all what they would call > > embedded > >> journalists. And I'm almost sure that the controls on the press were just > > as > >> tight in WWII, Korea or Indochina<<<<< > > > > Well you didn't have the media zoo in WWII or Korea as today and yes there > > was some kind of control but reporters and the few photographers of the day > > pretty well moved with the battle, so that meant they moved with it, but > > weren't controlled by the government where they could go and to say. > > > >> If it weren't for "embedding" (new term, > >> old concept), you'd be pretty lucky to have any coverage at all. Being > >> embedded vs. not is not a matter of ethics - it is a matter of > >> self-preservation. People aren't exactly breaking down the doors to do > >> coverage without cover.<<<<<< > > > > Look as I said above, if ten guys were asked, "do you want a free ride to > > the war and shoot some pictures?" Everyone would say yes! Why? Well this > > kind of stuff is always seen as a glory kind of assignment. "You'll be on > > your own!' "OK, that's cool!" and away they'd go in a flash. > > > > In Nam things were so wide open for the media you could arrive in Saigon and > > be on a chopper the next morning headed to wherever the chopper was going as > > long as you were there shooting for a recognized news organization. > > > >> This point of this is that you shouldn't dump on photojournalists because > > you > >> hate the government.<<<< > > > > The point is those who went as embedded whatever were there under the gun > > not to screw-up by saying anything to piss off the government and military, > > so how truthful were the reports? > > > > And how many pictures have we not seen due to "embarrassing pictures" being > > censored. Not because they were gruesome in detail but they'd be a problem > > for the government spin doctors to make them acceptable. > > > > But the bottom line is why the hell should a guy get some kind of medal for > > doing his job? Sure it was dangerous, but photographing thousands feet under > > ground in a mine is pretty damn dangerous to and I don't see anyone rushing > > with a medal for that. > > > > ted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <dante@umich.edu> > > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 5:47 PM > > Subject: Re: [Leica] Embedded Brit journalists will receive Iraq Campaign > > medal > > > > > >> I can't believe some of you people. > >> > >> It's one thing to say that it's improper for a government to give a medal > > or > >> ribbon or fruitcake or whatever to a journalist. Who cares. > >> > >> It's one thing to say that a journalist should not accept a ribbon. > > That's a > >> matter of ethics. Probably a minor one in light of the fact that you get > > a > >> campaign ribbon just for being there. > >> > >> > > .> > >> > >> No Archive > >> -- > >> To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > -- > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html