Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/07/13
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Thanks Tim, JPM did OK but the fact is at the moment we don't have enough pace in the car. I may have to get involved back in the design again. I was happiest when I did the aero and the racing, now it is not possible to be involved in everything. cheers Frank On 13 Jul, 2004, at 22:29, Tim Atherton wrote: > BD > >> and a Formula 1 >> (World Championship) car about $25,000,000. > > That's what Frank does for a "living".... :-) > > Not 100% sure - I think this is Frank in all his glory (?): > > http://bmw.williamsf1.com/ms/images/de/4_serien/41_f1/414_highlights/ > 4141_bi > ldergalerie/16_frankreich/16_frankreich_07.jpg > > http://bmw.williamsf1.com/ms/images/de/4_serien/41_f1/414_highlights/ > 4141_bi > ldergalerie/14_usa/14_usa_08.jpg > > > Frank - hey Montoya did okay last week > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lug-bounces+tim=kairosphoto.com@leica-users.org >> [mailto:lug-bounces+tim=kairosphoto.com@leica-users.org]On Behalf Of >> Frank Dernie >> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:44 PM >> To: Leica Users Group >> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Digital M >> >> >> BD, >> I am an engineer with a reasonable knowledge of manufacturing >> processes >> and costs. The main reason for the high cost of Leica items is that >> their market is so small. Canon can recover the design and tooling >> costs of a lens over probably hundreds more units than Leica can. >> To put this in perspective a good quality road car production cost is >> about $4000, a Champ car (Indy car) about $400,000 and a Formula 1 >> (World Championship) car about $25,000,000. There is a considerable >> technological difference but the main reasons for these vast >> difference >> in costs are the quantity of units over which engineering and tooling >> costs are amortised. >> Leica lenses are sold in too few numbers to be inexpensive without >> bankrupting the company. And you have to pay a premium for the brand, >> like cars :-) >> Frank >> >> >> On 13 Jul, 2004, at 19:39, B. D. Colen wrote: >> >>> There is no question that the M and Rs are extremely well built - the >>> Ms >>> are probably the best built modern cameras. And the lenses have no >>> peers >>> in terms of build quality. However...Is the build quality of an MP >>> five >>> times better than that of a Bessa R2? I don't think so. Much better? >>> Absolutely! Twice as good? Not a doubt. Three times as good? >>> Probably? >>> But five times better? I seriously doubt it - and yet the MP is five >>> times the price. Is the build quality of the old Summilux 50 almost >>> five >>> times better than that of the Cosina Nokton 50 1.5? No chance in >>> hell. >>> Twice as good? Even that's a stretch, but I'll grant that. Image >>> quality? It's pretty much a dead heat. Yet the Summilux cost almost >>> five >>> times as much. Why? The red dot. >>> >>> Is the DigiII 33 % better built, or does it produce 33% better images >>> than the Panasonic version of the same camera? How could it possibly >>> - >>> it's the same damn camera but black and without a red dot. >>> >>> Leica equipment is stellar - but please don't tell me you're not >>> paying >>> a huge premium for the name and red dot. :-) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org >>> [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf >>> Of >>> Peterson Arthur G NSSC >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:13 PM >>> To: 'Leica Users Group' >>> Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Digital M >>> >>> >>> >>> I do not think the prices of Leica cameras and lenses are not >>> "reasonable." They are built like no others, and the prices are >>> "reasonable" for what you get. You can buy many Toyotas, or even >>> several very fine Mercedes Benzes, for the price of a single >>> Rolls-Royce. >>> >>> Art Peterson >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Felix Lopez de Maturana [mailto:fmaturana@euskalnet.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:51 >>> To: lug@leica-users.org >>> Subject: [Leica] Re: Digital M >>> >>> >>>> I don't know that I call fine-tuning lenses innovative, David. Yes, >>>> they produce stunning lenses; absolutely no question about it. But >>>> the >>>> reality is that Canon also produces some stunning lenses, and even >>>> Nikon produces a few. ;-) There's nothing really "innovative" about >>>> it. >>> >>>> Now, if they found a way to produce stunning lenses at far lower >>>> cost, >>>> that would be innovative. ;-) >>> >>> May be the problem of Leica is that, probably due to the size and >>> management of the company, Leica cannot achieve the production of >>> stunning lenses not at a lower cost, this may be mathematically >>> impossible, but at a reasonable price. A "standard" lens like the new >>> 50mm ASPH is merely out of reason at the price is offered. I can buy >>> two >>> excellent Canon L lenses for this price. Probably a problem of >>> efficacy >>> of the company that will disappear if this situation remains. >>> >>> Felix >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >