Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/09/29

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Subject: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
From: s.jessurun95 at chello.nl (animal)
Date: Wed Sep 29 15:22:24 2004
References: <00e901c4a671$32137df0$6401a8c0@ccapr.com>

Well if performance is no factor then why not stay with the existing cosina
lenses like their 15mm,or put a sublime old 15 mm on a R?

simon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:10 AM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon


> But that's the point, Simon - I'm not talking about "performance" of
> anything; I'm talking about availability of, and price of, product. And
> if Leica thinks the path to survival lays through winning a bunch of
> Erwin Puts bench tests by .xxx%, they're dead on arrival. Fractions of
> percentages aren't going to matter - actually having a product will. If
> Leica can now turn on a dime and put out a real digital M six months
> from now - BEFORE Zeiss comes out with one - and price it so that it
> appeals to more than a handful of people for whom money is no object,
> then they have a chance. If not...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> animal
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 5:54 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
>
>
> As you mentioned earlier i think ,nothing  is known about the real
> performance of the new system. Isn,t it a bit premature to anounce a
> winner before a match? best regards simon jessurun amsterdam
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
> To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
>
>
> > IF that's Leica's response to an entire line of new Zeiss t-star
> > lenses, a film rangefinder body, and what will undoubtedly be a
> > digital body, then we most assuredly have the answer to the question.
> > Because if Leica survives as the Hermes of cameraland, it might as
> > well not survive.
> >
> > And there's another point to think about here, folks - Leica is still
> > around today for only one reason:
> >
> > In the early 1960s, Zeiss/Contax and Nikon abandoned the
> > pro-rangefinder playing field. Nikon, which made what was definitely
> > the best body at that time - the SP - decided to put all its eggs in
> > the SLR basket, a decision which was a loss for those of us who love
> > rangefinders, but was obviously a winner for Nikon. And Contax must
> > have decided that there wasn't going to be enough rangefinder business
>
> > to keep them going.
> >
> > So that left the barren playing field to Leica, which, other than
> > improving it's lens line, hasn't done anything truly innovative since
> > bringing out and abandoning the M5. And, when you think about it,
> > really hasn't done anything innovative since the "O."
> >
> > But because there have been enough photographers committed to using
> > rangefinders, and enough dilitants committed to owning Leicas - and a
> > scarf company willing to buy up a grand old brand name - Leica's
> > limped along to the present day.
> >
> > Now, however, we are on the downward slope of the technology range
> > taking us into the next age of photography. Any company that wants to
> > survive in the new age is going to have to be a real part of that age.
>
> > And up to this point, Leica has, as usual, limped along at the back
> > end of the parade.
> >
> > So this time Zeiss - well the Zeiss/Kyocera/Hassleblad/Contax
> > coalition
> > - has decided to stick around and pickup  the pieces. Unless Leica is
> > prepared to move, and move very quickly - perhaps by talking Nikon,
> > Canon, or Olympus into a rangefinder partnership, Leica's days are,
> > sadly, very much numbered. I say "sadly" with total sincerity, because
> I
> > am enough of a traditionalist to be touched by the Leica heritage -
> I'd
> > rather be shooting in a new age with a grandchild of HCB's M3s, than
> > shooting with a Kocerstein's monster patched together with parts from
> a
> > washing machine, a high-milage care, and a disposable camera. :-)
> >
> > B. D.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
> > [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf
> > Of Dan C
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 4:33 PM
> > To: Leica Users Group
> > Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon
> >
> >
> > Leica has responded in part by offering the a la carte Leica.  But
> > have you
> > seen the prices?    Do I really want to spend upwards of $4,000 USD
> for
> > the
> > privilege of picking the colour of my camera?  Are there enough people
>
> > out there willing to do so to keep Leica afloat?
> >
> > -dan c.
> >
> > At 04:26 PM 29-09-04 -0400, B. D. Colen wrote:
> > >Emanuel says..
> > >"The old era of Zeiss - Leitz rivalry was a heady time
> > >for 35mm design," and asks...
> > >
> > >"Now, in these days, how will Leica respond?"
> > >
> > >---
> > >As they, sadly, always have ... With too little, too late, and at too
>
> > >high a price.
> > >
> > >These are not the heady days of the Zeiss/Leitz competition - which,
> > >if
> >
> > >we recall, were actually the days of the Zeiss/Leitz/Nikon
> > >competition.
> > >;-)
> > >
> > >These are the days of the Zeiss/Kyocera/Cosina/Hassie consortium
> > >moving
> >
> > >in to clean up the remaining scraps from the rangefinder table -
> > >scraps
> >
> > >that could have been Leicas had Leica moved 18 months ago, or even
> > >further back, when the Cosina handwriting was writ large upon the
> > >wall.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
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>
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Replies: Reply from bdcolen at earthlink.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon)
In reply to: Message from bdcolen at earthlink.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Re: New Zeiss Ikon)