Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/02/20
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I think you take the Leica paperwork far too seriously. I have photocopies of the originals and things are far from clear. There are several sequential olive M3s for example which are not on the list but clearly exist. There were factory special orders of specials which are not properly marked in the register, or sometimes a hurried scrawl. There are repaired cameras which have had mods done either by the factory or specialist technicians. One of my MPs has the correct engraving on the shutter crate, double wind and M2 style film counter but has been repaired at some time using an M2 top plate. I used to take the various lists in the collectors books as gospel when I first traced the history of some of mine but soon learned that the truth is more complicated. The best research I have seen on the reality are the two books by Giunta who has been collecting details from collectors into his spreadsheet for years. Clear patterns which are not obvious from the Leitz records can be seen. Mind you there are plenty of fakes of the valuable models too..... Frank On 20 Feb, 2006, at 22:27, GREG LORENZO wrote: > Hi Frank, > > Here is the result from querying Leica's Serial Number database for > the camera in question (Serial No. 1164803): > > "Serial number 1164803 > Product Leica M2" > > Here is the result from querying the same database for a personally > known M2-R: > > "Serial number 1248695 > Product Leica M2R" > > The Ebay ad in question referred to a 1966 manufacture date for > this "M2-R" camera. (The date of the camera's manufacture is > correct at least.) However, Leica did not commence making and > selling the 2000 M2-R's that were made in total until 1969. From > the Cameraquest website Serial Number listing: > > "Date Camera Starting Ending Batch > > 8/28/69 M2-R 1248201 1250200 2000" > > Page 207 of Volume 1 of Jim Lager's Leica Illustrated History > agrees with both Leica and Cameraquest with repect to Serial Number > series and with Cameraquest with regard to maufacture date. > > The Seller withdrew the ad very quickly (at least) after I emailed > them on it. > > I would certainly not be prepared to do business with them, others > can draw their own conclusion. > > Regards, > > Greg > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frank Dernie <Frank.Dernie@btinternet.com> > Date: Monday, February 20, 2006 1:09 pm > Subject: Re: [Leica] Bogus M2-R Auction > >> The Classic Camera is a pretty serious Leica collectors >> dealership. I >> would be very surprised if they mis-represented an item for sale, >> particularly since they are not hiding behind a non recognisable >> ebay >> name. >> I did buty a mis-represented camera once on ebay from an >> apparently >> private individual which turned out to be Ffordes, a dealer I had >> hitherto considered to be reputable and from whom I had bought >> other >> cameras and lenses directly. >> Frank >> >> On 20 Feb, 2006, at 17:18, GREG LORENZO wrote: >> >>> The Classic Camera - The Leica Shop in London's West End. >>> >>> Here is the item description verbatim from that Ebay Auction. >>> >>> I really can't understand posting this kind of nonsense: >>> >>> "Leica M2R Black Paint with Three Limited Edition B+W Prints. >>> >>> This camera has an interesting history. It dates from 1966, and >>> soon after was expertly painted black (by the US Military we >>> understand) and used by War Photographer Fidel Peralle in >> Vietnam >>> in the late '60s/early '70s. In the year 2000, Peralle returned >> to >>> Vietnam and shot a new series of pictures with his old black >> paint >>> M2-R - three of which are included here in limited edition >> prints. >>> Given its somewhat turbulent past, the camera is in remarkably >> good >>> condition - signs of average/normal use as one would expect from >> >>> something of this vintage. The black paint is clean and there >> are >>> no signs of brassing at edges or corners. There are a few minor >>> surface marks on the top plate, and tiny pin-head sized ding >> above >>> the Leica scripted logo. Overall, condition is a very good Exc+ - >> >>> maybe Exc++ - depending on how rigorous you want to be. The >> camera >>> is in full working order. The shutter is working on all speeds >> and >>> appears accurate, though absolute accuracy not guaranteed. The rang >>> efinder is working correctly and is clear and easy to focus. >>> Viewfinder magnification is 0.85x. There are frames for 50mm and >> >>> 90mm lenses only - for some reason the original owner had the >> 35mm >>> brightline frame taken out. The camera comes with original >>> instructions and the three limited edition A4 size black and >> white >>> prints previously mentioned." >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information