Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/09/15

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Subject: [Leica] Re: BW modes
From: hoppyman at bigpond.net.au (G Hopkinson)
Date: Fri Sep 15 17:38:41 2006

Analog is continuous tone. A smooth curve.
Digital is a stepped approximation of that line.
You have to correct the approximation so it looks close to continuous.

When you capture digitally from an analog source you lose some apparent 
sharpness

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org 
[mailto:lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
Christopher Williams
Sent: Saturday, 16 September 2006 10:38
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: [Leica] Re: BW modes

Too many big words there for me! :)

Sharpening is inevitable? Never did it with film, why do we have to with
digital????

Chris



----- Original Message -----
From: "G Hopkinson" <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au>
To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: BW modes


> Chris if you are taking that continuous curve analog light and sampling it
to discrete steps, it just must be softer. Sharpening is
> inevitable. Of course just how smart the algorithm is that restores that
lost apparent sharpness, where it happens and how much
> control you want over the process is the biggie.
>
> Cheers
> Hoppy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> Christopher Williams
> Sent: Saturday, 16 September 2006 02:12
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: [Leica] Re: BW modes
>
> Simply converting a color image to BW sucks. Too many levels, curves to
work
> with getting a good BW out of a color image. If I had a BW RAW to deal
with,
> I'd already have custom curves ready to work with the images. Saves at
least
> one step for me. That's allot of saving IMO.
>
> That's the problem I think now. Too many crap tools! Perhaps actually
having
> a digital image that you do not have to sharpen is a start? Even sharp
prime
> lenses need sharpening.
>
> I'd take that motorized SP and beat the shite out of that Rebel.
>
> Chris
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Dory" <don.dory@gmail.com>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: BW modes
>
>
> > Come on Chris,
> > This would work fine if "convert to grayscale" made you happy.  Or if
you
> > simply desaturated your images which is the same thing as a B&W imaging
> > would do. In fairness this is not entirely correct wrt pixel density and
> > ability to see finer detail.
> >
> > Face it, many images work better if you apply a little filtration as you
> > convert to B&W.  And you are still going to adjust levels, curves,
> possibly
> > a little dodging or burning so maybe you would only spend 2.5 hours
> getting
> > your images up to your standards.  Last, as expensive as you are per
hour,
> > it is still cheaper than sending 50 rolls of film to the lab.
> >
> > We are never happy, photographers have more tools that are better than
> they
> > have ever been and still we grump.  Sometime pick up a motorised SP from
> the
> > late fifties and compare that with a lowly film Rebel.  Size, weight,
> > framing rate, available lenses, TTL flash capability, and metering are
all
> > much better today for less money even before inflation.  But hey, you
> could
> > at least buy a F1.1 lens for your Nikon then.
> >
> > Don
> > don.dory@gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On 9/15/06, Christopher Williams <leicachris@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd love to have full BW RAW mode, no color converting at all. Save
even
> > > more time when I'm dealing with 800-1600 images from a wedding. Now
that
> > > we're getting into even more megapixel's in cameras, anything to speed
> up
> > > processing. Try converting 500 or more color RAW images to BW jpeg on
a
> > > D1x
> > > with 10mp interpolation on!
> > >
> > > Also I hate that clients just consider "well, you can just change it
to
> BW
> > > later right?". I want the BW capture first! I want Neopan 1600 in a
10mp
> > > camera GD!
> > >
> > > There was talk from Leica on a BW only digital M. Special limited
> edition
> > > matte chrome Bresson Digital BW M8.5 camera, only $9999
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "G Hopkinson"
> > > Subject: RE: [Leica] Re BW modes
> > >
> > >
> > > > B.D., yes, got that you were championing original RAW capture.
> > > > I understand and agree from my limited knowledge.
> > > > I've only played with a couple of RAW files (from a D70 user) as an
> > > educational exercise, but is it not only adding a channel mix
> > > > choice to the workflow? Meanwhile still preserving all of the RGB
info
> > > as
> > > options?
> > > > Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but is the sensor capture
> fundamentally
> > > not b/w, with filters/alterations applied to produce the
> > > > three channels?
> > > > I can't see that actually being commercially viable to pursue but I
> can
> > > see b/w as a minority output choice, being most versatile
> > > > coming from the three channels. Maybe I'm just overly b/w from
colour
> > > scan
> > > fixated?
> > > > I really want to understand better.
> > > > All knowledge is golden, someone wise said.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Hoppy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Leica Users Group.
> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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In reply to: Message from leicachris at worldnet.att.net (Christopher Williams) ([Leica] Re: BW modes)