Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/11/24

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Subject: [Leica] Kvetchmongering?
From: dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella)
Date: Fri Nov 24 13:45:55 2006
References: <003201c70ff4$f3356c70$62caa8c0@shulman>

Jim:

The phenomenon is that one person (or a small number of people) has a  
problem under a limited set of circumstances and complains.  This  
gets posted to a mailing list, which get picked up by Google  
searches.  Then people, doing this "research," get on places like  
DPreview and complain about something they never experienced.   
Eventually, the conventional wisdom becomes that the product is no  
good, that it always has the problem for every picture, and that no  
one should buy it.  This leads to low sales volume and voila!

On the other hand, Leica's "we're never wrong" mentality is not much  
better.  Are they offering filters because replacement sensors cost  
so much?  Did someone at Leica mis-specify how much IR he thought was  
acceptable?

They should have had Kodak do their firmware and in-camera software.   
But that's water under the bridge.

Dante

On Nov 24, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Jim Shulman wrote:

> Kvetchmongering, or
> If we complain too much, Leica will take away our new toys and go  
> home.
>
> Oh, I see: Create a product for one of the most demanding, finicky  
> groups of
> photographers (and enthusiasts) in the world.
> Charge a premium for the product.
> Release the product several years after a similar product has been  
> in the
> market--and well behind the SLR rivals.
> Enter the market with a less-than-stellar reputation for camera  
> electronics
> reliability.  Remember the R8, and the LUG stories about the repair  
> trips
> back to Solms?
> Gin up the fanfare, with lots of (deserved) rave reviews.
> Discover two significant problems (one correctable with a firmware  
> upgrade,
> requiring a trip back to Solms, the other one not electronically
> correctable) within a week or two of introduction.
>
> This isn't kvetchmongering.  It's the nature of selling an extremely
> expensive technical product, not fully de-bugged, to a group of
> technically-sophisticated consumers.  Professionals in any field  
> talk before
> they invest in equipment that is supposed to last for years.
>
> If the M8 disappears, it's because there aren't enough  
> photographers willing
> to part with five grand for its virtues (or in spite of its flaws).
>
> The proof is in the camera, not the commentary.
>
>
> Jim Shulman
> Bryn Mawr, PA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of  
> Dante
> Stella
> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:03 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica M8: "I think it's going to be all right"
>
> I get the impression that the problems with the M8 are overstated.
> People love to repeat stuff like that, no matter how seldom it occurs
> - and you can look to the Kodak SLR and the Hexar RF to see where
> that chitter-chatter leads.  So I also wouldn't be surprised if the
> M8 disappears as a result of kvetchmongering.
>
> On Nov 19, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Irving Greines wrote:
>
>> I don't believe a series of filters (eveen if given away for free)
>> will
>> solve Leica's problems.  There will have to be a permanent fix to the
>> camera itself.  We love Leica because it is a quick, silent,
>> unobtrusive
>> street camera; these attributes are undermined if the quickness
>> component is compromised by a need to fiddle.
>>
>> Paying almost $5,000 for a camera that requires fixes in order to
>> operate correctly in certain circumstances is a tough sell, except  
>> for
>> those who "need" to buy and justify the latest Leica no matter
>> what.  In
>> my view, after the initial sales are completed to those who simply
>> have
>> to have the M8, the M8 will face tough sailing in the marketplace if
>> Leica does not solve its present problem.
>>
>> I'm betting that Voightlander will furnish the fix in the form of a
>> much
>> lower-priced body that doesn't have Leica's problems.
>>
>> I'd love to have an M8, but not the present-version. How many
>> photographers will wait for the successor version, or the  
>> Voightlander
>> version, before spending their money?  I feel many will wait.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


Replies: Reply from jshul at comcast.net (Jim Shulman) ([Leica] Kvetchmongering?)
Reply from rclompus at mac.com (Richard Clompus) ([Leica] Kvetchmongering?)
In reply to: Message from jshul at comcast.net (Jim Shulman) ([Leica] Kvetchmongering?)