Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/11/24
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I suspect there are a lot of people involved in the design of the M8 we will never know that are saying among themselves, "I told them this design decision would cause a problem" and "I'm sure our customers will be willing to use IR filters on every lens if we tell them so." Richard On Nov 24, 2006, at 4:45 PM, Dante Stella wrote: > Jim: > > The phenomenon is that one person (or a small number of people) has > a problem under a limited set of circumstances and complains. This > gets posted to a mailing list, which get picked up by Google > searches. Then people, doing this "research," get on places like > DPreview and complain about something they never experienced. > Eventually, the conventional wisdom becomes that the product is no > good, that it always has the problem for every picture, and that no > one should buy it. This leads to low sales volume and voila! > > On the other hand, Leica's "we're never wrong" mentality is not > much better. Are they offering filters because replacement sensors > cost so much? Did someone at Leica mis-specify how much IR he > thought was acceptable? > > They should have had Kodak do their firmware and in-camera > software. But that's water under the bridge. > > Dante > > On Nov 24, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Jim Shulman wrote: > >> Kvetchmongering, or >> If we complain too much, Leica will take away our new toys and go >> home. >> >> Oh, I see: Create a product for one of the most demanding, finicky >> groups of >> photographers (and enthusiasts) in the world. >> Charge a premium for the product. >> Release the product several years after a similar product has been >> in the >> market--and well behind the SLR rivals. >> Enter the market with a less-than-stellar reputation for camera >> electronics >> reliability. Remember the R8, and the LUG stories about the >> repair trips >> back to Solms? >> Gin up the fanfare, with lots of (deserved) rave reviews. >> Discover two significant problems (one correctable with a firmware >> upgrade, >> requiring a trip back to Solms, the other one not electronically >> correctable) within a week or two of introduction. >> >> This isn't kvetchmongering. It's the nature of selling an extremely >> expensive technical product, not fully de-bugged, to a group of >> technically-sophisticated consumers. Professionals in any field >> talk before >> they invest in equipment that is supposed to last for years. >> >> If the M8 disappears, it's because there aren't enough >> photographers willing >> to part with five grand for its virtues (or in spite of its flaws). >> >> The proof is in the camera, not the commentary. >> >> >> Jim Shulman >> Bryn Mawr, PA >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org >> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf >> Of Dante >> Stella >> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:03 PM >> To: Leica Users Group >> Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica M8: "I think it's going to be all right" >> >> I get the impression that the problems with the M8 are overstated. >> People love to repeat stuff like that, no matter how seldom it occurs >> - and you can look to the Kodak SLR and the Hexar RF to see where >> that chitter-chatter leads. So I also wouldn't be surprised if the >> M8 disappears as a result of kvetchmongering. >> >> On Nov 19, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Irving Greines wrote: >> >>> I don't believe a series of filters (eveen if given away for free) >>> will >>> solve Leica's problems. There will have to be a permanent fix to >>> the >>> camera itself. We love Leica because it is a quick, silent, >>> unobtrusive >>> street camera; these attributes are undermined if the quickness >>> component is compromised by a need to fiddle. >>> >>> Paying almost $5,000 for a camera that requires fixes in order to >>> operate correctly in certain circumstances is a tough sell, >>> except for >>> those who "need" to buy and justify the latest Leica no matter >>> what. In >>> my view, after the initial sales are completed to those who simply >>> have >>> to have the M8, the M8 will face tough sailing in the marketplace if >>> Leica does not solve its present problem. >>> >>> I'm betting that Voightlander will furnish the fix in the form of a >>> much >>> lower-priced body that doesn't have Leica's problems. >>> >>> I'd love to have an M8, but not the present-version. How many >>> photographers will wait for the successor version, or the >>> Voightlander >>> version, before spending their money? I feel many will wait. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information