Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/01/15

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Subject: [Leica] There's something about German design ...
From: douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp)
Date: Mon Jan 15 09:01:56 2007
References: <200701150418.l0F4IlM8086419@server1.waverley.reid.org><315738.85149.qm@web90412.mail.mud.yahoo.com><200701150654.l0F6svXV004648@server1.waverley.reid.org> <cee6b34c9fba.45ab44a8@shaw.ca> <010401c738c5$33dc0b00$39cd9253@Korhonen>

Raimo,
that's what happened at Stalingrad too - the logistics just didn't work 
- G?ring promised Hitler 1700 tons of supplies per day when he knew full 
well  he could only deliver 72 tons a day by air.
Douglas

Raimo K wrote:
> The biggest shortage that the Germans faced was lack of fuel - IIRC 
> for the Battle of the Bulge the German tanks and aircraft had fuel for 
> 5 days. Later aircraft and tanks were abandoned in perfect working 
> order because there was no fuel.
> All the best!
> Raimo K
> Personal photography homepage at:
> http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "GREG LORENZO" <gregj.lorenzo@shaw.ca>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 6:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] There's something about German design ...
>
>
>> Marc James Small writes in part:
>>
>>>
>>> The M4 Sherman has received a lot of hostility
>>> from the Disdain and Hysteria Channels in recent
>>> years but this is undeserved.  It was a solid
>>> vehicle capable of solid work.  Sure, it had
>>> limitations but one part of doctrine is to teach
>>> soldiers how to make the best of their gear and,
>>> in the end, the Sherman turned into a real
>>> workhorse which effectively crushed German armor by early 1945.
>>
>> This is not corrrect, most German armor on the Western Front was put 
>> out of action by air power (i.e. rocket firing Typhoons, etc.) and to 
>> a lesser degree by anti-tank guns. A significant amount of German 
>> equipment, including tanks was abandoned in perfect working condition 
>> when the Germans retreated east after the battle of Falaise. Germany 
>> had no effective airforce left to provide battlefield cover at this 
>> point in the war and could only move effectively at night.
>>
>>> To put it a different way, if the Panther and the
>>> Tiger were so great, and the Sherman so lousy,
>>> how then did we win the War?  If the
>>> Messerschmidt and the Focke-Wulf were so
>>> superior, and the P-47 and P-51 so bad, why did
>>> the Germans have no air cover left by the time of
>>> OVERLORD?  The true answer, of course, is that
>>> our gear worked better, all in all, than did
>>> theirs, and our doctrine was superior, so that we
>>> were able to grind them into little bitty pieces by early 1945.
>>>
>>
>> This is also incorrect (except for the fact that Germany had no air 
>> force to speak of at this point). German prop fighter aircraft were 
>> just as good as allied aircraft. Their jet aircraft clearly superior. 
>> They lacked trained pilots after 1942.
>>
>> World War II was won primarily on the Eastern Front by the **Soviet 
>> Union**. This is summed up nicely by the author Charles B. MacDonald 
>> in his book "World War II: The War Against Germany and Italy".
>>
>> MacDonald wrote the following paragraph:
>>
>> * "The German armed forces and the nation were prostrate, beaten to a 
>> degree never before seen in modern times. Hardly any organized units 
>> of the German Army remained except in Norway, Czechoslovakia, and the 
>> Balkans, and these would soon capitulate. What remained of the air 
>> arm was too demoralized even for a final suicidal effort, and the 
>> residue of the German Navy lay helpless in captured northern ports. 
>> Through five years of war, the German armed forces had lost over 3 
>> million men killed, 263,000 of them in the west, since D-day. The 
>> United States lost 135,576 dead in Western Europe, while Britain, 
>> Canada, France, and other Allies incurred after D-day approximately 
>> 60,000 military deaths."
>>
>> * Source: Army Historical Series, Office of The Chief of Military 
>> History, US Army.
>>
>> On land, the Western Allies (primarily the USA) in WWII clearly won 
>> the Pacific War against Japan. North Africa, Italy and Western Europe 
>> were very much a side show in the fight against Germany. Strategic 
>> bombing of German plants and cities and German occupied Europe and 
>> naval actions excepted.
>>
>>
>> Greg J. Lorenzo
>> Calgary, Alberta
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



Replies: Reply from jbcollier at shaw.ca (John Collier) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Reply from raimo.m.korhonen at uusikaupunki.fi (Raimo K) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
In reply to: Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from wrs111445 at yahoo.com (Bill Smith) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from gregj.lorenzo at shaw.ca (GREG LORENZO) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from raimo.m.korhonen at uusikaupunki.fi (Raimo K) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)