Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/08/31

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Subject: [Leica] Re: M8 problems
From: grduprey at mchsi.com (grduprey@mchsi.com)
Date: Fri Aug 31 19:52:33 2007

Luis,

I understand the reluctance to change, I have had the same problem, but 
finally got past the problem.  Although I still shoot like I use film and am 
reluctant to just shoot more freely.  I guess that will pass also.  ;-)  The 
one thing digital give us is the chance to learn without wasting film, which 
is indeed a good thing.  In the mean time keep shooting your film cameras 
ans showing us those great photos.

Gene

-------------- Original message from "Luis Ripoll" 
<luisripoll@telefonica.net>: -------------- 


> Hi Gene, 
> 
> Thanks for your opinion, maybe you are right, we can't expect uncertain 
> future, and we should be adapated to the real trends... Times are 
> changing... and maybe I'm too reluctance to change. 
> 
> Saludos cordiales 
> Luis 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Mensaje original----- 
> De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org 
> [mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org] En nombre 
> de 
> grduprey@mchsi.com 
> Enviado el: viernes, 31 de agosto de 2007 5:23 
> Para: Leica Users Group 
> Asunto: RE: [Leica] Re: M8 problems 
> 
> Luis, the M8 is 1.3, not 4/3. If you wait for the full frame, that is your 
> decision. The same as those who hated the 35mm camera for not being a 4x5 
> or 8x10. A 35mm size equivalent to the LF cameras never happened. Yes, a 
> FF M may someday happen, but it will be some time until it does, and I 
> would 
> be pretty sure the current M lenses will not work with it, as I would 
> guess 
> they will have to have the lenses reformulated so the rear lens element is 
> farther away from the sensor. For the DSLR, it is not an issue as the 
> lenses are farther away from the sensor, due to the mirror. 
> 
> Gene 
> 
> -------------- Original message from "Luis Ripoll" 
> : -------------- 
> 
> 
> > Hi Peter, 
> > 
> > I've found really interesting your arguments, but beside all the 
> > mentionned points, for me it remain one point, the format 4:3. I want 
> > to use my lenses on the original focal lenght. I hope, and I think 
> > that Leica will made a 1:1 format in the future. 
> > 
> > Saludos cordiales 
> > Luis 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Mensaje original----- 
> > De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org 
> > [mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org] En 
> > nombre de Peter Klein Enviado el: jueves, 30 de agosto de 2007 20:04 
> > Para: lug@leica-users.org 
> > Asunto: Re: [Leica] Re: M8 problems 
> > 
> > 
> > Larry: 
> > 
> > Sounds like you really have two issues: 
> > 
> > - Do I need digital at all? 
> > - Do I need (or want) an M8? 
> > 
> > Digital is convenient. Digital has less dynamic range than negative 
> > film, but ISO for ISO, it's cleaner than most film. You don't buy film 
> > and processing, you buy a camera. 
> > 
> > I'm with Tina and George and Sonny--my M8 gives me the best image 
> > quality I've seen from a 35mm-size camera. 
> > 
> > No doubt about it, the M8 also has quirks and hidden costs that derive 
> > from those quirks. We have the IR filter/cyan drift issues and the 
> > need for coding of 35mm and wider lenses. There have been reliability 
> > issues with some cameras, particularly early models. Most of the 
> > really bad problems seem to have been fixed. 
> > 
> > But every so often, somebody's M8 fails, and we hear about it quickly. 
> > The Internet amplifies the problems, and it seems like every M8 is a 
> > piece of crap. I liken it to watching your local television news. It 
> > seems like there is a child molester on every block, and a terrorist 
> behind every tree. 
> > But is that really the case? 
> > 
> > We can scream from today till next Tuesday about how Leica shoulda 
> > done this and oughta done that, how could they not know about the IR 
> > issue, and how dare a $5000 camera not be perfect? But the fact is 
> > that Leica is a small company, and it's trying to compete with very deep 
> pockets from Japan, Inc. 
> > And the problems of very fast lenses and close-to-the-sensor RF lenses 
> > mean Leica has more to deal with than the DSLR makers. 
> > 
> > The real question is "what do I get for my five grand, and is it worth 
> > it to *me*? And if the thing dies, can I live with the delays while it's 
> fixed. 
> > 
> > My pet peeve is that they should give us a lens selection menu. And I 
> > am annoyed about the focus shift issues--they are not as bad as some 
> > people make them, but they are real. 
> > 
> > I knew about all the issues except focus shift, and I still bought the 
> > camera. I waited 6 months until it looked like the major teething 
> > pains had been fixed. I'm not rich, I still can't believe how much the 
> > damn thing cost, and I am still very happy I bought it. 
> > 
> > No one can guarantee that you will get a perfect,trouble-free M8. But 
> > it is telling that most of the people here who have M8s love them, and 
> > even those who have had failures want them back so they can shoot with 
> them. 
> > I've been lucky so far, no major problems. I'm still fine-tuning my 
> > shooting to find the sweet spot between blown highlights and too much 
> > shadow noise. My own feelings are about 5% occasional buyer's remorse 
> > and 95% "I LOVE this camera." 
> > 
> > Only you can decide if you want an M8. The way you're talking, film 
> > works for you, you don't need the immediacy of digital most of the 
> > time. If that's the case, why switch? OTOH, if you are interested in 
> > exploring digital while maintaining the same control layout and 
> > general shooting style as you did with Ms and manual SLRs, then the M8 
> > is 
> worthy of consideration. 
> > If the M8 is not your cup of tea but you want a good, affordable 
> > high-quality digital, consider the Pentax K10D or the Olympus E-510, 
> > both very worthy shooter's cameras. 
> > 
> > But if you love RF shooting and the way Leica lenses draw images, the 
> > M8 is the only digital game in town. It takes some work and adjustment 
> > to get the highest quality of which the M8 is capable. But it can be 
> > done, and when you get it, it is incredible. You can argue that Brand 
> > C gives cleaner high ISO images, but not at the level of detail the M8 
> gives. 
> > 
> > I'm shooting more with my M8 than I ever did with film. I have touched 
> > my 
> > E-1 and my film Ms each exactly once since I got the M8 5 months 
> > ago--the 
> > E-1 for a macro shot and the film M for a classical concert. That 
> > ought to tell you something. 
> > 
> > Reverse peer pressure: Regardless of what you decide, you and your 
> > photos are always welcome around here! 
> > 
> > --Peter 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Leica Users Group. 
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Leica Users Group. 
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Leica Users Group. 
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 

Replies: Reply from luisripoll at telefonica.net (Luis Ripoll) ([Leica] Re: M8 problems)