Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/09/16

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Subject: [Leica] Leica's manufacturing
From: hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:16:45 +1000
References: <C6D5B100.54BBE%mark@rabinergroup.com> <DC2DF311-46E9-491E-9AE0-E1B4366F692B@comcast.net>

To provide a point of reference, (using Stefan Daniel's stated production
rates) Leica made and sold in the region of 30,000+ M8 and M8.2 cameras.
Only Leica knows what the actual failure rates were, despite internet
conjecture.  For sure they had to correct widely reported faults in some
early production.  The actual numbers are very properly commercial in
confidence for Leica themselves. I think that the camera matured and the
product became a reliable tool. Really the M8.2 was for refinement rather
than fault correction. Now the M9 looks to offer a large step forward from
that in features.
Made in Germany does not make me cringe. Worth waiting to give the M9 be
widely distributed and in use before any judgements on reliability I think?


2009/9/16 Richard Taylor <r.s.taylor at comcast.net>

> Mark - What we've heard is actually opinions from a couple of guys who have
> professional  insight into industrial processes that ring true to this
> professional as well.  What has to be done to achieve an acceptable failure
> rate in released cameras built under different processes is well known.
>  (Settling on the acceptable failure rate isn't easy, either, since the
> lower the rate the higher the cost of the camera.)
>
> If Leica has learned from their experience, the M9 will be a solid return
> to their traditions.  If not, they might not survive another black eye.  
> The
> failure rate of the purchased cameras will tell the tale.
>
> At one time "Made in Japan" assured inferior goods, and "Made in Germany"
> signified the best.  Now, when I heard the M9 and X1 were both made in
> Germany, I cringed.  Japan is the best at releasing high quality high-tech
> goods these days.  I never give the reliability of Nikon, Olympus or
> Panasonic cameras a second thought when buying one.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dick
>
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2009, at 9:00 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>
>    I have no faith that Leica's product design or manufacturing
>>> policies are optimum, no matter how rich Dr. Andreas Kaufmann is. Nor
>>> am I happy that they are willing to dissemble to hide engineering
>>> ineptness. Remember that just a year ago it was impossible to make full
>>> frame digital Leicas and that magenta blacks were an illusion. Good
>>> people can make bad decisions. Witness Bill Gates downplaying the
>>> importance of the internet or signing off on Vista. The brief video
>>> view of Leica's assembly process is hardly a confidence builder.
>>>  Larry Z
>>>
>>
>>
>> That fact that excellent companies make big historical mistakes does not
>> make a bunch of camera collector guys on an email list experts in the
>> optical mechanical manufacturing process.
>> It's not like second guessing where they put the on off switch.
>> Here we have a company showing us the ins of their manufacturing process
>> how
>> foolish of them not not know that they had something to hide.
>> I'm going to take the wild guess in thinking that they don't have anything
>> to hide. That this is the best way to make this camera system in these
>> amounts. And they these professionals would not be out of the loop on such
>> obvious options.
>>
>>
>> Mark William Rabiner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
Cheers
Geoff
The new LEICA M9
Passion for perfect pictures.
http://www.m.leica-camera.com

http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/
http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman


Replies: Reply from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] Leica's manufacturing)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Leica's manufacturing)
Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] Leica's manufacturing)