Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/01/29

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Subject: [Leica] Tr: Re: Re: M9, lag time, perception and other things
From: philippe.amard at sfr.fr (philippe.amard at sfr.fr)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:22:36 +0100 (CET)
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Message du : 29/01/2010
De : "Robert Meier " 
A : "Leica Users Group" 
Copie ? : 
Sujet : Re: [Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things


 
Ted,

You're approaching this as a subjective matter, what your experience  
is and what it seems like to you.   That's of course completely  
legitimate. 
 But it has been presented as an objective matter of 
timing the shutter lag, a matter of milliseconds rather than a matter  
of feelings. That, of course, is also entirely legitimate, and is a  
different way of approaching it.   The objective approach deals in  
observable and measurable facts, not feelings.   So it's not  
surprising that conclusions differ.

Robert



If I may intrude, 
what I read in Ted's post what that the photog in general needs training to 
shoot faster, 
and the result is also an observable fact.


Now, add up the two factors and you'll have shot the picture even before 
clicking :-)
Bien cordialement de Strasbourg
Philippe


On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:33 AM,  wrote:

> Gary Todoroff offered interesting testimomial. However, are we not  
> talking about two different camera systems?
>
> One, the M8-9 rangefinder camera with nothing flipping up and down?  
> Compared to an SLR of some kind with flipping mirrors and whatever  
> extra screens that move about? Is that not correct? Different systems?
>
> My gut feeling is the more things to go click-clack in the night as  
> the shutter is released the greater the opportunity for LAG-TIME to  
> occur?  I can understand a lag time occurring. But the M8-9 is  
> camera to eye, quick focus.... click! Done! And if there is a delay  
> I don't doubt these are as much human reactions involved in what  
> the photographer sees and by the time his nervous system creates  
> pressure on finger tip to push click!
>
> And this with the minds eye re-calling "just the moment" seen  
> compared to the taken image. If one is experiencing this regularly  
> here's a tip how to speed your tripping and nervous system up.
>
> Stand on the side of a highway and focus on the front of on coming  
> traffic and do this until you can get 36 rams in a row sharply in  
> focus. It works! As it's an old training exercise I have always  
> done for years before going to cover world international sports  
> events as tee Olympics. You will be surprised how much  faster you  
> become in "SEE-SHOOT-SHARP!"
>
> So far with my M8 I have absolutely no sense of so-called milli- 
> second lost moment of what I saw and reacted to faster than I  
> breath and my heart beats. This is why I put as much of the LAG- 
> TIME back on the shoulders of the photographer than blaming the  
> camera. Meaured or otherwise, we humans see and shoot or don't  
> shoot as fast as some of us think we do.
>
> And this is why over the years I have consistently offered.... "YOU  
> CAN'T THINK AND SHOOT!" Nor can you think and bat in baseball as  
> Yogi Berra offered. There isn't any question, we as humans time  
> measured or otherwise, have different see-shoot nerve systems of re- 
> action time and this little nerve triggering system is what make  
> great sports photographers  better than 99% of all others. Their  
> nerve system  re-action.
>
> I trust this is somewhere along the lines of your thoughts and  
> experience.
>
> But from this side of the screen I can honestly say I have never  
> experienced this phenomena knowingly with an M8 or M9.
>
> cheers,
> ted
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


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In reply to: Message from leicar at q.com (Aram Langhans) ([Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things)
Message from benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney) ([Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things)
Message from richard.lists at gmail.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things)
Message from datamaster at northcoastphotos.com (Gary Todoroff) ([Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] M9, lag time, perception and other things)