Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/12/24

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Subject: [Leica] Well, that was educational
From: robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 08:35:57 -0600 (CST)
References: <AANLkTikDiOuUdLUT7mNr1VfWUwPSv0zHn8KmQE4XcUDS@mail.gmail.com> <90BCA0A946B6423685419D0491FA2410@syneticfeba505> <4D14422A.30806@whitedogs.co.uk>

Mark,

Did you keep in touch with Barry Thornton?   I read Edge of Darkness  
a few years ago and was inspired by it.   And then I heard he died,  
but never found out anything further about the circumstances of his  
death.   Do you know anything about how he died?

Robert

On Dec 24, 2010, at 12:48 AM, Mark Pope wrote:

> Been there and done that myself.  I had the same experience as Ted  
> when I submitted some prints to the RPS and decided there and then  
> not to pursue any of the accreditations any further.  I felt that  
> they were easy to get of you followed the formula laid down by the  
> 'Fellows' of the RPS.
> After leaving a bit bruised, I thought about it and decided that  
> from then on I would take pictures for *ME*, NOT for the RPS.  If  
> others like them, then that's fantastic.  If they don't, then  
> that's fine too.
>
> I love to receive constructive criticism.  I remember when Barry  
> Thornton taught me to print in B&W.  He would make all sorts of  
> gentle suggestions of how to improve a print by altering the grade,  
> a touch of burning here, dodging there or a slight crop.  A couple  
> of times he would reject a picture out of hand, but he did so with  
> a good reason and was almost always right.
>
> It sounds like your portfolio is there or there abouts.  Why not  
> try tweaking a few of them to see how they look?  The most  
> important thing to remember though is that they are *your* images  
> and only show them if you are satisfied with them.  Sod's law will  
> almost certainly guarantee that if Gallery Owner A says they aren't  
> punchy enough, B will say they are too punchy and so it goes on.
>
> And don't forget that prints will look different depending on the  
> lighting conditions where they are hung.
>
> One last thing.  Those XPAN shots you showed a few weeks back? You  
> know the ones of the trees in the mist?  If there's ever a set of  
> prints crying out to be beautifully printed and put up for sale  
> then it's these.
>
> Best of luck!
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Pope,
> Swindon, Wilts
> UK
>
> Homepage               http://www.monomagic.co.uk
> Blog                   http://www.monomagic.co.uk/blog
> Picture a week (2010)  http://www.monomagic.co.uk/index.php? 
> gallery=paw/2010
> Picture a week (2009)  http://www.monomagic.co.uk/index.php? 
> gallery=paw/2009
>                (2008) http://www.monomagic.co.uk/index.php? 
> gallery=paw/2008
>
> On 24/12/2010 06:21, tedgrant at shaw.ca wrote:
>> Richard Man Offered:
>> " <richard at imagecraft.com>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:17 PM
>> Subject: [Leica] Well, that was educational
>>
>>
>>> re: rejection
>>
>> Richard my on screen friend let me offer a tidbit about this  
>> gallery etc
>> competition thing and rejection!
>>
>> About? Ready? 58 years ago I joined the Ottawa Camera Club so I might
>> learn more about being a better photographer and photography in  
>> general.
>> They had a monthly photo/print competition as most community clubs  
>> do.
>>
>> They also had the "guru if the club," an old guy. :-) Ok that's  
>> easy for
>> me to relate to these days. :-) He was "Old Doc. Martin!" Well
>> everything and anything he said was gospel. Your photography lived or
>> died according to Old Doc Martin and his comments, good, bad or  
>> ugly!"
>>
>> I hung on his words as did many others. That was until other people
>> began making very nice comments about my photographs. I was seeing  
>> neat
>> things and recording same. Others in the club offered praise and many
>> positive remarks about my photo results.
>>
>> One evening it was an open critique and "Old Doc Martin" was doing  
>> his
>> thing.. He said his piece about a photograph before the enchanted
>> members because "Here he was, the God of Photography making comments
>> about a photograph!" In many cases he just ravaged unmercifully at  
>> times
>> as there wasn't anybody who challenged what he said! :-( That's  
>> the way
>> it was in the real olden days.
>>
>> Some of the older folks, usually the very devoted senior lady
>> photographers would shed a tear at his ravaging commentary about  
>> their
>> photograph. As it was I had entered one that I thought was pretty  
>> damn
>> good, Even "she who must be obeyed" was very positive about it.
>>
>> So I made a 16X20 wet tray double weight E surface paper print and  
>> man I
>> was glowing in pride about it. :-)Yet humble! Because I was still the
>> "new kid" on the block with all the elder folks in the club. Many I
>> secretively admired their photographic ability. But I did kind of  
>> feel I
>> was catching up to some of them on occasion! :-)
>>
>> In any event there was "Old Doc Martin" holding my print on high and
>> ranting on about any number of tiddly things, but never offering
>> anything positive in how to make it a better photograph! Oh he was  
>> great
>> at reaming yer butt, no problem! Rarely did he ever offer "HOW TO FIX
>> IT!" Make it better. Believe me that isn't anyway to critique!  
>> PERIOD!
>> Nobody learns anything!
>>
>> I sat there almost petrified as he ranted on. Then I thought, "UP
>> YOURS!" Now consider this is a twenty something kid so wet behind the
>> ears I was still dripping! Got up, walked to the front where he was
>> still holding my print on high, took it out of his hands before he
>> realized what was happening. Tore it up and threw it in the air!
>>
>> "Screw you and your BS!" And I walked out until about twenty years  
>> later
>> when the Ottawa Camera Club asked me if I would judge and critique  
>> their
>> annual photo competition. :-)
>>
>> The first thing I did after my introduction was to relate the above
>> story of many years past! Fortunately it turned out much to their
>> delight! ;-) And yes I did kick butt! Not every picture is a good  
>> one!
>> But I did offer how it might or should have been shot to improve the
>> final image. Trust me, they did learn that evening, it wasn't just
>> ranting! :-)
>>
>> So my friend it comes down to "we, ourselves are the most important
>> person to be satisfied with our photography! PERIOD! " If we in our
>> hearts and minds produce a quality we are proud to have "OUR NAME" on
>> the photograph, then in 99.99% of the time all viewers will see  
>> the same
>> goodness in it. :-) For what it's worth.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Dr. ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I did not get juried into a "gallery show" course.  
>>> Congratulations to Bob
>>> Adler though as he will be showing his stuff at the group show in  
>>> March.
>>>
>>> The thoughts of selling all my gears and take up... something else
>>> occurred
>>> to me. But I figured I should just "pick up the pieces and  
>>> soldier on,
>>> soldier on"
>>>
>>> I talked to the gallery owners and the instructor. They made it  
>>> clear
>>> that
>>> the format, and the content in my portfolio generally are OK, but  
>>> the
>>> printing and post processing need more "punch."
>>>
>>> While I know people have different preferences on printing and
>>> post-processing, I agree with their general assessment and more
>>> importantly,
>>> this is a technicality and techniques I know I can tweak and  
>>> improve. I
>>> would be more concerned if the content fails. As an artist, it's
>>> sometimes
>>> difficult to ascertain whether an image is a good image or  
>>> whether one is
>>> deluding oneself.
>>>
>>> Techniques I can handle. After all, it's only in early Nov that I  
>>> started
>>> the digital negative contact printing.
>>>
>>> More printing and full speed ahead.
>>> --
>>> // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
>>> // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
>>> // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
>>> [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all
>>> previous
>>> replies in your msgs. ]
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
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>
> _______________________________________________
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Replies: Reply from rgacpa at yahoo.com (Bob Adler) ([Leica] Well, that was educational)
Reply from rgacpa at yahoo.com (Bob Adler) ([Leica] Fw: Well, that was educational)
Reply from mark at whitedogs.co.uk (Mark Pope) ([Leica] Well, that was educational)
In reply to: Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Well, that was educational)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] Well, that was educational)
Message from mark at whitedogs.co.uk (Mark Pope) ([Leica] Well, that was educational)