Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/10/16

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Subject: [Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia
From: jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:04:39 +0530
References: <f527156d0467a0f6e34642a52280bb1d@mail.gmail.com> <4E9B63BA.3010500@cox.net> <63FAF8CA-D821-40D4-9BA4-84C6D5B99CAF@mac.com> <4E9B73D4.2000609@cox.net> <6EAD5027-BEA5-479A-AE46-0C7BDB550E99@usjet.net> <4E9B7A9A.9060503@cox.net> <DFFFFCF2-9F5F-4092-AFC4-30C8AFCE512C@usjet.net> <FFA5C472-B85F-45D4-BB56-88C83E92933C@gmail.com> <72C01E5D-5BE3-448B-8C28-1E4D2FE9C8D3@usjet.net>

In that case I agree with you 100%!
Cheers
Jayanand

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Robert Meier <robertmeier at 
usjet.net>wrote:

> Jayanand,
>
> I'm not sure what you're replying to, and what you are saying are not
> comparable.  I was just responding to Ken's assertion that the rich all pay
> the high rate (of 35%).
>
> Robert
>
>
> On Oct 17, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj wrote:
>
>  Robert,
>> They are strictly not comparable. Rich people pay 22% average tax on their
>> income, because most of their income tends to Capital Gains and Dividends.
>> Dividend comes out of income where corporate tax has already been paid, so
>> the effective tax rate charged on that income is really much higher. 
>> Capital
>> Gains are taxed at a lower rate of tax the world over, for reasons of
>> encouraging capital formation, it is nothing unusual or specific to the 
>> USA.
>> The earned income exemption to hedge fund managers, on the other hand, is
>> unique to the USA, and a telling reminder of the power of money in 
>> campaign
>> politics. Just like your (IMHO idiotic) tort laws distort medical costs 
>> for
>> every citizen, this exemption tends to distort the tax revenue of the
>> country.
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Oct 17, 2011, at 6:52 AM, Robert Meier <robertmeier at usjet.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  "Who pays taxes at a lower rate?"   Warren Buffet paid 17% last year, not
>>> the highest rate of 35%.  A survey found that the average was around 20% 
>>> for
>>> high income taxpayers.   Hedge fund managers, of course, pay the 15% 
>>> capital
>>> gains rate rather than the 35% earned income rate.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 7:45 PM, Ken Carney wrote:
>>>
>>>  Robert,
>>>>
>>>> Which "news"?  If I got my information from TV or even the recently
>>>> discredited WSJ, I would not have a complete view.  With regard to 
>>>> Warren
>>>> Buffet, I think a confiscation of income over, say, $1 million would
>>>> accomplish nothing.  I stand to be corrected.  As always.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> On 10/16/2011 7:25 PM, Robert Meier wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>
>>>>> "The Buffet Rule:"   Haven't you been following the news?
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Ken Carney wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  On 10/16/2011 6:33 PM, George Lottermoser wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 6:07 PM, Ken Carney<kcarney1 at cox.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Wonder how all these occupiers were able to get off work for so
>>>>>>>> long?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many of the Milwaukee "Occupiers" (a one Saturday event) were "laid
>>>>>>> off" or otherwise unemployed; part of that 9.1% as well as the 99%. 
>>>>>>> I spoke
>>>>>>> with quite a few degreed professionals with 20 plus year professional
>>>>>>> careers who have been unable to find "any" work for 4 to 12 months. 
>>>>>>> Others
>>>>>>> have been forced into early retirement. Others are serious students 
>>>>>>> who can
>>>>>>> no longer finance their educations; or find employment. The stories 
>>>>>>> are many
>>>>>>> and sad. Minorities in Milwaukee have more than 4 times that 9% 
>>>>>>> unemployment
>>>>>>> rate. And those rates do not include the people who have simply 
>>>>>>> given up on
>>>>>>> the prospect of finding work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards, George
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See 
>>>>>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>>>>>  more information
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I hear you.  It also relates to Richard's comments about
>>>>>> corporations hoarding cash and banks not lending...the reason is that 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> aren't as many opportunities for investment now.  The reverse, 
>>>>>> actually.
>>>>>>  The question is, what can our government do about it?   The 
>>>>>> government
>>>>>> doesn't create jobs, except in a temporary and largely wasteful sense.
>>>>>>  Large CEO salaries and taxes on the rich are irrelevant - the most
>>>>>> draconian measures would not put a small dent in the debt.  What is 
>>>>>> needed,
>>>>>> IMHO, is competent fiscal administration, something not present now 
>>>>>> (IMHO).
>>>>>>  I have now escalated into a rant, which needs at least a couple of
>>>>>> constructive suggestions.  As a tax adviser, I will probably be
>>>>>> excommunicated for this one, but I think the current policies 
>>>>>> regarding
>>>>>> transfer of intangible assets offshore should be revisited (Google, 
>>>>>> Cisco et
>>>>>> al.).  All that is happening there is that the income escaping U.S. 
>>>>>> tax must
>>>>>> be reinvested in another offshore business, else it will b
>>>>>>
>>>>>  ecome income subject to U.S. tax.  So, the U.S. tax break is building
>> industries and infrastructure in other countries.   A U.S. citizen is
>> taxable on worldwide income, now matter where earned.  Why should it be
>> different for a corporate business?  A second suggestion is to stop U.S.
>> military intervention in hopeless causes, e.g., Afghanistan.  OK, a third
>> bonus suggestion would be some way to eliminate federal pork spending, a
>> lost cause I know.
>>
>>>
>>>>>> Lastly, I have numerous clients who have taxable income in excess of
>>>>>> $1 million.  They all pay taxes at the highest rate.  They are also 
>>>>>> usually
>>>>>> high charitable givers.  Who pays taxes at a lower rate?  Two 
>>>>>> instances come
>>>>>> to mind.  One is the risk taker who is able to take a deduction for
>>>>>> intangible drilling costs in the exploration for oil and natural gas, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> that is a temporary thing.  The other is someone who has bitten on a 
>>>>>> tax
>>>>>> shelter, with blowback potential that will greatly exceed the 
>>>>>> temporary tax
>>>>>> savings.  EOR!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See 
>>>>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>>>>  more information
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See 
>>>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>>>  more information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See 
>>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>>  more information
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See 
>>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>>  more information
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See 
>> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>>  more information
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See 
> http://leica-users.org/**mailman/listinfo/lug<http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug>for
>  more information
>


In reply to: Message from jshulman at judgecrater.com (Jim Shulman) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] PESO: America, from Occupy Philadelphia)