Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/04/15

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Subject: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:43:46 -0400

Yes I agree Dante you were not putting forth the idea that the lens was made
soft on the edges so it would be used on the M9 either which was my main
point.
I am partial to the 35 Summicron ASPH Elmarit as I own and have used it
extensively wondering as I wonder really how anything could be better. If
spending another grand and getting another stop gives you a better result
than fine I do believe it but would also love to see it. Me I don't go to
fast glass for the ultimate in quality I go to slow glass. From what I know
about basic lens design that's how I think. Adding extra speed is a bundle
of worms.

What's frustrating to me is the Summarits are really not all that cheap.
When something cost into the thousands to me I don't think cheap. And when I
start spending that kind of money I don't want something which was made
slightly more palatable for sometimes not wallet but bank account. Its a
major financial decision. And for that I want cutting edge from Leica. Asph
APO if it starts with an A I like it.

- - from my iRabs.
Mark Rabiner
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/


> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:26:52 -0400
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
> 
> Mark,
> 
> My only point is that as with the Summarits, some lenses are made to a
> price/size point, and Leica's monster (and monstrously expensive) lenses 
> seem
> to be better - even in Leica literature - than the baby lenses.  This was
> actually one I shopped when I bought my M8.  I should have also made it 
> clear
> that I was not adopting the view that it was a bad lens.  In fact, by 
> Leica's
> numbers, it's quite good. I ultimately decided to stick with my 35/1.4 
> ASPH,
> though.
> 
> Dante
> 
> On Apr 10, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
> 
>> Yep that's Leica's business model!  Designing cheap glass.
>> 
>> - - from my iRabs.
>> Mark Rabiner
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:56:39 -0400
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Cc: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>> 
>>> The 28mm Elmarit ASPH is challenged in the corners because it is 
>>> designed to
>>> be a cheap (orig $1,600) compact lens, no?
>>> 
>>> Dante
>>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 19:03, Marty Deveney <benedenia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The 28 Elmarit 2.8 ASPH appeared to be designed for the M8 not the
>>>> Summicron - its performance drops in the corners when used wide open
>>>> on a 24x36mm frame as you can see on the MTF chart linked from here:
>>>> http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/2194.html.  The
>>>> 28 Summicron is sharp right out to the corners, and has a very flat
>>>> field.  H. Ball Arche, who used to use a 28 a lot and posted here
>>>> prolifically, didn't like the flat field because it made heads in the
>>>> corners of the frame look like footballs - he preferred the C-V 28/1.9
>>>> which had greater barrel distortion and a less flat field, but less
>>>> apparent distortion of things like heads in the corners.  A nice
>>>> display of the compromises optical design includes.
>>>> 
>>>> The 35 Summicron ASPH was designed during the film era and in some
>>>> ways doesn't perform as well as the 35 Summilux ASPH II with the
>>>> floating element, but it's still pretty formidable.  On the M8 I
>>>> prefer a 28 to a 35, but I think generally I prefer a 28 overall, even
>>>> if it is the Nikkor 28mm f1.4 which is actually a ~31mm lens.  After
>>>> Leica revises the 50 Summicron (now the oldest lens in the M line up
>>>> and the only Summicron without aspherical element(s)) the 35 and 90
>>>> ASPH Summicrons are probably next, because they are the oldest.
>>>> 
>>>> Summicron 28 (borrowed, and my, look at that magenta!):
>>>> 
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Freakscene_001/L1002579.jpg.htm>>>>
l
>>>> Nikkor 28: 
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Tsukiji/File0825.jpg.html
>>>> 
>>>> Marty
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 6:40 AM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.co.nz> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Where are you coming from Mark?
>>>>> Where has it been said that they are lowering quality??
>>>>> Where is it said that they designed an M lens for smaller than 24mm x
>>>>> 36mm???
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am on record here in saying how good the 28mm Summicron is.....
>>>>> 
>>>>> All I am saying, and this backed up by users on this list, is that a 
>>>>> 28mm
>>>>> lens becomes the equivalent of a 35mm on the M8 and that is a more used
>>>>> focal length than 28mm is for FF.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please read (and understand) what is being said rather than making 
>>>>> things
>>>>> up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> john
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It strike me as phantasmagorical baloney that Leica lowered its 
>>>>> standards
>>>>> on
>>>>> edge quality to make the compact Leica 35mm f/2 SUMMICRON-M ASPH ideal 
>>>>> for
>>>>> the M8 making it less ideal for the M9. By the way the lens is now 
>>>>> being
>>>>> sold new for just over four grand $.
>>>>> I don't think Leica has ever made a lens for a crop camera and has 
>>>>> stated
>>>>> over and over any lens it ever makes will be fully usable on a film M.
>>>>> I don't t think anything is going to get it to settle for less than
>>>>> excellent edge quality for its M glass going straight out to a 43.3mm
>>>>> image
>>>>> crop circle....
>>>>> The 28 Summicron is  a gem and at the top of my list for my next Leica
>>>>> lens.
>>>>> This lowering of quality thing is a LUG myth which I don't think we're
>>>>> going
>>>>> to find documented elsewise.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>>>> Mark Rabiner
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: John McMaster <john at chiaroscuro.co.nz>
>>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:47:45 +1200
>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That is more of an M8 staple rather than the 35mm/50mm of the M9.....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> john
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have seen more 28 Summicron for sale in the last month than last 2
>>>>>> years.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




Replies: Reply from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)
Reply from john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)
Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)
Reply from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Phil Forrest) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)
In reply to: Message from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)