Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/04/15

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Subject: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
From: dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:20:49 -0400
References: <CBB0F192.1D23D%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Mark -

Just for fun, I shot a roll of Kodak ProImage 100 (Mexican Gold 100-6) about 
a month ago (I rarely, if ever, shoot 35mm anything).  What was amazing to 
me was that with 100-speed film and the 35/1.4 Summilux ASPH (as well as a 
reasonably steady hand), you could get shots that you would be shooting 
today at ISO 800 with the typical zoom on a digital, like this (shot in the 
light of a parking garage):

http://dantestella.smugmug.com/Other/Test-Pictures/22469857_JSZ5jL#!i=1796525844&k=x9qC2q4

I should have remembered that I used to do things like this all the time.  

And aside from the FLE version (which I don't understand, since I don't 
experience focus shift to any noticeable degree), you're right, this is 
arguably the best lens they ever did.

Dante

On Apr 15, 2012, at 9:43 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:

> Yes I agree Dante you were not putting forth the idea that the lens was 
> made
> soft on the edges so it would be used on the M9 either which was my main
> point.
> I am partial to the 35 Summicron ASPH Elmarit as I own and have used it
> extensively wondering as I wonder really how anything could be better. If
> spending another grand and getting another stop gives you a better result
> than fine I do believe it but would also love to see it. Me I don't go to
> fast glass for the ultimate in quality I go to slow glass. From what I know
> about basic lens design that's how I think. Adding extra speed is a bundle
> of worms.
> 
> What's frustrating to me is the Summarits are really not all that cheap.
> When something cost into the thousands to me I don't think cheap. And when 
> I
> start spending that kind of money I don't want something which was made
> slightly more palatable for sometimes not wallet but bank account. Its a
> major financial decision. And for that I want cutting edge from Leica. Asph
> APO if it starts with an A I like it.
> 
> - - from my iRabs.
> Mark Rabiner
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
> 
> 
>> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:26:52 -0400
>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> My only point is that as with the Summarits, some lenses are made to a
>> price/size point, and Leica's monster (and monstrously expensive) lenses 
>> seem
>> to be better - even in Leica literature - than the baby lenses.  This was
>> actually one I shopped when I bought my M8.  I should have also made it 
>> clear
>> that I was not adopting the view that it was a bad lens.  In fact, by 
>> Leica's
>> numbers, it's quite good. I ultimately decided to stick with my 35/1.4 
>> ASPH,
>> though.
>> 
>> Dante
>> 
>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>> 
>>> Yep that's Leica's business model!  Designing cheap glass.
>>> 
>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>> Mark Rabiner
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:56:39 -0400
>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Cc: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>>> 
>>>> The 28mm Elmarit ASPH is challenged in the corners because it is 
>>>> designed to
>>>> be a cheap (orig $1,600) compact lens, no?
>>>> 
>>>> Dante
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 19:03, Marty Deveney <benedenia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The 28 Elmarit 2.8 ASPH appeared to be designed for the M8 not the
>>>>> Summicron - its performance drops in the corners when used wide open
>>>>> on a 24x36mm frame as you can see on the MTF chart linked from here:
>>>>> http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/2194.html.  The
>>>>> 28 Summicron is sharp right out to the corners, and has a very flat
>>>>> field.  H. Ball Arche, who used to use a 28 a lot and posted here
>>>>> prolifically, didn't like the flat field because it made heads in the
>>>>> corners of the frame look like footballs - he preferred the C-V 28/1.9
>>>>> which had greater barrel distortion and a less flat field, but less
>>>>> apparent distortion of things like heads in the corners.  A nice
>>>>> display of the compromises optical design includes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The 35 Summicron ASPH was designed during the film era and in some
>>>>> ways doesn't perform as well as the 35 Summilux ASPH II with the
>>>>> floating element, but it's still pretty formidable.  On the M8 I
>>>>> prefer a 28 to a 35, but I think generally I prefer a 28 overall, even
>>>>> if it is the Nikkor 28mm f1.4 which is actually a ~31mm lens.  After
>>>>> Leica revises the 50 Summicron (now the oldest lens in the M line up
>>>>> and the only Summicron without aspherical element(s)) the 35 and 90
>>>>> ASPH Summicrons are probably next, because they are the oldest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Summicron 28 (borrowed, and my, look at that magenta!):
>>>>> 
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Freakscene_001/L1002579.jpg.htm>>>>
> l
>>>>> Nikkor 28: 
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Tsukiji/File0825.jpg.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marty
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 6:40 AM, John McMaster <john at 
>>>>> mcmaster.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>>> Where are you coming from Mark?
>>>>>> Where has it been said that they are lowering quality??
>>>>>> Where is it said that they designed an M lens for smaller than 24mm x
>>>>>> 36mm???
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am on record here in saying how good the 28mm Summicron is.....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All I am saying, and this backed up by users on this list, is that a 
>>>>>> 28mm
>>>>>> lens becomes the equivalent of a 35mm on the M8 and that is a more 
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> focal length than 28mm is for FF.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please read (and understand) what is being said rather than making 
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> up.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> john
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It strike me as phantasmagorical baloney that Leica lowered its 
>>>>>> standards
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> edge quality to make the compact Leica 35mm f/2 SUMMICRON-M ASPH 
>>>>>> ideal for
>>>>>> the M8 making it less ideal for the M9. By the way the lens is now 
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> sold new for just over four grand $.
>>>>>> I don't think Leica has ever made a lens for a crop camera and has 
>>>>>> stated
>>>>>> over and over any lens it ever makes will be fully usable on a film M.
>>>>>> I don't t think anything is going to get it to settle for less than
>>>>>> excellent edge quality for its M glass going straight out to a 43.3mm
>>>>>> image
>>>>>> crop circle....
>>>>>> The 28 Summicron is  a gem and at the top of my list for my next Leica
>>>>>> lens.
>>>>>> This lowering of quality thing is a LUG myth which I don't think we're
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to find documented elsewise.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>>>>> Mark Rabiner
>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: John McMaster <john at chiaroscuro.co.nz>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:47:45 +1200
>>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That is more of an M8 staple rather than the 35mm/50mm of the M9.....
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> john
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have seen more 28 Summicron for sale in the last month than last 2
>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)