Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/04/15

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Subject: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 23:09:58 -0400

Looks great amazing iso 100 inside a car; even if the door is open.

- - from my iRabs.
Mark Rabiner
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/


> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:20:49 -0400
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
> 
> Mark -
> 
> Just for fun, I shot a roll of Kodak ProImage 100 (Mexican Gold 100-6) 
> about a
> month ago (I rarely, if ever, shoot 35mm anything).  What was amazing to me
> was that with 100-speed film and the 35/1.4 Summilux ASPH (as well as a
> reasonably steady hand), you could get shots that you would be shooting 
> today
> at ISO 800 with the typical zoom on a digital, like this (shot in the 
> light of
> a parking garage):
> 
> http://dantestella.smugmug.com/Other/Test-Pictures/22469857_JSZ5jL#!i=17965258
> 44&k=x9qC2q4
> 
> I should have remembered that I used to do things like this all the time.
> 
> And aside from the FLE version (which I don't understand, since I don't
> experience focus shift to any noticeable degree), you're right, this is
> arguably the best lens they ever did.
> 
> Dante
> 
> On Apr 15, 2012, at 9:43 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
> 
>> Yes I agree Dante you were not putting forth the idea that the lens was 
>> made
>> soft on the edges so it would be used on the M9 either which was my main
>> point.
>> I am partial to the 35 Summicron ASPH Elmarit as I own and have used it
>> extensively wondering as I wonder really how anything could be better. If
>> spending another grand and getting another stop gives you a better result
>> than fine I do believe it but would also love to see it. Me I don't go to
>> fast glass for the ultimate in quality I go to slow glass. From what I 
>> know
>> about basic lens design that's how I think. Adding extra speed is a bundle
>> of worms.
>> 
>> What's frustrating to me is the Summarits are really not all that cheap.
>> When something cost into the thousands to me I don't think cheap. And 
>> when I
>> start spending that kind of money I don't want something which was made
>> slightly more palatable for sometimes not wallet but bank account. Its a
>> major financial decision. And for that I want cutting edge from Leica. 
>> Asph
>> APO if it starts with an A I like it.
>> 
>> - - from my iRabs.
>> Mark Rabiner
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:26:52 -0400
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>> 
>>> Mark,
>>> 
>>> My only point is that as with the Summarits, some lenses are made to a
>>> price/size point, and Leica's monster (and monstrously expensive) lenses
>>> seem
>>> to be better - even in Leica literature - than the baby lenses.  This was
>>> actually one I shopped when I bought my M8.  I should have also made it
>>> clear
>>> that I was not adopting the view that it was a bad lens.  In fact, by
>>> Leica's
>>> numbers, it's quite good. I ultimately decided to stick with my 35/1.4 
>>> ASPH,
>>> though.
>>> 
>>> Dante
>>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yep that's Leica's business model!  Designing cheap glass.
>>>> 
>>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>>> Mark Rabiner
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Dante Stella <dstella1 at ameritech.net>
>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 20:56:39 -0400
>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Cc: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>>>> 
>>>>> The 28mm Elmarit ASPH is challenged in the corners because it is 
>>>>> designed
>>>>> to
>>>>> be a cheap (orig $1,600) compact lens, no?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dante
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 19:03, Marty Deveney <benedenia at gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> The 28 Elmarit 2.8 ASPH appeared to be designed for the M8 not the
>>>>>> Summicron - its performance drops in the corners when used wide open
>>>>>> on a 24x36mm frame as you can see on the MTF chart linked from here:
>>>>>> http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/2194.html.  The
>>>>>> 28 Summicron is sharp right out to the corners, and has a very flat
>>>>>> field.  H. Ball Arche, who used to use a 28 a lot and posted here
>>>>>> prolifically, didn't like the flat field because it made heads in the
>>>>>> corners of the frame look like footballs - he preferred the C-V 28/1.9
>>>>>> which had greater barrel distortion and a less flat field, but less
>>>>>> apparent distortion of things like heads in the corners.  A nice
>>>>>> display of the compromises optical design includes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The 35 Summicron ASPH was designed during the film era and in some
>>>>>> ways doesn't perform as well as the 35 Summilux ASPH II with the
>>>>>> floating element, but it's still pretty formidable.  On the M8 I
>>>>>> prefer a 28 to a 35, but I think generally I prefer a 28 overall, even
>>>>>> if it is the Nikkor 28mm f1.4 which is actually a ~31mm lens.  After
>>>>>> Leica revises the 50 Summicron (now the oldest lens in the M line up
>>>>>> and the only Summicron without aspherical element(s)) the 35 and 90
>>>>>> ASPH Summicrons are probably next, because they are the oldest.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Summicron 28 (borrowed, and my, look at that magenta!):
>>>>>> 
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Freakscene_001/L1002579.jpg.htm>>
>> >>
>> l
>>>>>> Nikkor 28: 
>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/freakscene/Tsukiji/File0825.jpg.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marty
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 6:40 AM, John McMaster <john at 
>>>>>> mcmaster.co.nz>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Where are you coming from Mark?
>>>>>>> Where has it been said that they are lowering quality??
>>>>>>> Where is it said that they designed an M lens for smaller than 24mm x
>>>>>>> 36mm???
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am on record here in saying how good the 28mm Summicron is.....
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> All I am saying, and this backed up by users on this list, is that a
>>>>>>> 28mm
>>>>>>> lens becomes the equivalent of a 35mm on the M8 and that is a more 
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> focal length than 28mm is for FF.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Please read (and understand) what is being said rather than making
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> john
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It strike me as phantasmagorical baloney that Leica lowered its
>>>>>>> standards
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> edge quality to make the compact Leica 35mm f/2 SUMMICRON-M ASPH 
>>>>>>> ideal
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the M8 making it less ideal for the M9. By the way the lens is now 
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> sold new for just over four grand $.
>>>>>>> I don't think Leica has ever made a lens for a crop camera and has
>>>>>>> stated
>>>>>>> over and over any lens it ever makes will be fully usable on a film 
>>>>>>> M.
>>>>>>> I don't t think anything is going to get it to settle for less than
>>>>>>> excellent edge quality for its M glass going straight out to a 43.3mm
>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>> crop circle....
>>>>>>> The 28 Summicron is  a gem and at the top of my list for my next 
>>>>>>> Leica
>>>>>>> lens.
>>>>>>> This lowering of quality thing is a LUG myth which I don't think 
>>>>>>> we're
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to find documented elsewise.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>>>>>> Mark Rabiner
>>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: John McMaster <john at chiaroscuro.co.nz>
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:47:45 +1200
>>>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The world is awash with M9.......
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That is more of an M8 staple rather than the 35mm/50mm of the 
>>>>>>>> M9.....
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> john
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have seen more 28 Summicron for sale in the last month than last 2
>>>>>>>> years.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




In reply to: Message from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] The world is awash with M9.......)