Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/05/28

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Subject: [Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W
From: dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 00:16:23 -0400
References: <004c01cd3bc0$d410e8d0$7c32ba70$@chiaroscuro.co.nz><CABmfTOUvLC-8yig7zXEgx=WWzitVtgRLzmNPZnJStnS6F2nZnQ@mail.gmail.com><CAH1UNJ2xjqL4o20KoSV3YG08b4ASFkx_SW573yUP7q4i-3QxUA@mail.gmail.com><CABmfTOWJ+N4ehNZxgCNhoevH-UyA7dYpkzJPqWPvZvctKg469A@mail.gmail.com><00c501cd3c0b$6f10a100$4d31e300$@earthlink.net><B1204C69-01C6-46E7-938F-44A2CDE9F07B@ameritech.net><CAF8hL-GAKVoadYFvGvp2DPPM=dQXy_6sYxdESi2CooxkxEV_mw@mail.gmail.com> <85506E79-434C-42CA-9A37-4E954F12ED64@ameritech.net> <22C6CB6229F542CCB75D63B2AB7ACA0F@billHP>

I have an M8 and a D700, so I share your sentiment...

Dante

On May 28, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Bill Pearce wrote:

> I happen to own both an M9 and a D700, and I must say they are two very 
> different animals. In good light, the M9's files are easily seen as 
> better: crisper, better color, and can blow up really big with no 
> problems. At higher ISO's, the Nikon is not to be topped. And, it is an 
> easy handling camera when a SLR is a better choice. And, not to start a 
> war, but the lenses for the D700, while not the equal of the Leica lenses, 
> are a lot better than those for another big name camera. I wouldn't sell 
> either one.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Dante Stella
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 7:57 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W
> 
> Not at all. In bright light, the M9 easily outperforms the D700 with 18 
> non-aliased MP over 12 with some light antialiasing.  The tradeoff is that 
> the D700 is so good at low-light performance that some D700 owners are not 
> going to worry about what an MM can do at ISO 10,000.  Ming Thein's dead 
> heat in mono between an MM and a D800E essentially damns the MM with faint 
> praise.
> 
> Dante
> 
> On May 27, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Richard Man wrote:
> 
>> While it's a good point, the Leica M9 has similar price / performance 
>> issue
>> with, lets say the Nikon D700. So it's nothing new here in that sense. M9
>> shooters choose it because of other factor, mainly that it's a rangefinder
>> and with the advantages that come with it.
>> 
>> I can say for certain that I would have gotten some images that I did not
>> get at the Occupy if I had an MM. I cannot say that if I had a Nikon.
>> 
>> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 6:37 AM, Dante Stella <dstella1 at 
>> ameritech.net>wrote:
>> 
>>> It's a new version of that lens from the 2000s, but your point is a good
>>> one.
>>> 
>>> It's not that an MM holds its own with a 36mp camera. It's that a $3600
>>> outfit involving an OK lens is performing at the same level as a system
>>> including the best 50 ever, costing a total of $16,000, having no color
>>> capability and allowing no highlight recoverability.
>>> 
>>> There is no comparison for size/weight, and for some purposes, it's 
>>> better
>>> to use traditional contrast filters, but still... most people with the
>>> money to even consider a MM have some understanding of marginal utility.
>>> 
>>> Dante
>>> 
>>> On May 27, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "Frank Filippone" <red735i at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The lens he tested the 50AA against is the old pancake 45mm lens, isn't
>>> it?
>>>> 
>>>> Having said all that, the results for a 40+ year old $100 lens + $3500
>>> body
>>>> compared to a new, SOTA $7000 lens + $9000 body is pretty upsetting.
>>>> 
>>>> Nikon did pretty well... in fact, for the $12,000 difference in price,
>>> the
>>>> image results indicate the 50AA + M9m is way overpriced and outclassed
>>> on a
>>>> value for money equivalent.
>>>> 
>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>> Red735i at earthlink.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This I did not notice, I must say.  I wonder why he didn't spring
>>>> ~$200 for a 50/1.8 G lens?  It really seems a weird 'comparison' to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Marty
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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Replies: Reply from grduprey at mchsi.com (grduprey at mchsi.com) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
In reply to: Message from john at chiaroscuro.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from red735i at earthlink.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)
Message from billcpearce at cox.net (Bill Pearce) ([Leica] Ming Thein part 3 - MM vs D800E in B&W)