Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/09

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Subject: [Leica] Desensitization
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:06:08 -0500

And the reason they preferred State first and the union second was so they
could continue their system based on slavery.
Also no one gives a rats ass if their "perspective" was of one of a long
term agreement concerning slavery being broached. I certainly hope there
feelings were not hurt.

Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


> From: Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 19:15:30 -0500
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization
> 
> Ric, while slavery was the proximate cause of the war, most of the response
> was the truly great debate about the nature of the union.  Many in the
> Southern States truly believed in the State first and the union second.
>  Lee is the perfect example of one who abhorred slavery but so loved his
> Virginia that he declined the honor of leading the Union Armies in the
> invasion of Virginia.
> 
> Of course political power and the wealth that flowed from that had a lot to
> do with the ultimate war.  With Lincoln as president there was no doubt
> that the new states joining the union would be free states that would
> ultimately change the balance of power in the Senate and the House.  If you
> were wealthy in the South, in no small part due to slavery, then the idea
> that the industrial northern states combined with the new states in the
> west could take your wealth away was worth the expenditure of thousands of
> lives.  Of course not their own.  I say that, but if you visit the
> University of Virginia you will see that most of the classes near the Civil
> War died in the war: if you could go to the University you were part of the
> ruling class.
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ken, I just had a good friend tour the Blues sites in Mississippi near
>> Greenwood.  Most are still there in all their grubby glory.  The Delta is 
>> a
>> place of great poverty with pockets of vast wealth.  Good ingredients for
>> the Blues.  Most of the worst poverty is invisible now.  It doesn't mean
>> that it isn't there but it is poor politics to have rows of shotgun shacks
>> with no running water and no interior toilet facilities visible from the
>> road.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I knew that term would draw fire.  Many residents of the Southeastern
>>> U.S. use that term as from their perspective the Northern States violated
>>> the long term agreement about slavery.  It is important when moving 
>>> between
>>> cultures to understand their perspective on how things happened and more
>>> important the why.  Whether it fits the facts on the ground the personal
>>> reality is the sum of the society, it's myths, dreams, and the 
>>> origination
>>> stories that culture tells itself.
>>> 
>>> As to the American Civil War as most know the conflict of the early to
>>> mid 1860's it was eighty years in the making more or less and proof that
>>> even know horrendous human undertakings require just as horrendous a
>>> response to change.  My opinion is that is why change is so hard, the 
>>> price
>>> of change is often as horrendous as the objected to activity.  Consider 
>>> the
>>> Second World War, we remember the Holocaust as 6 million Jews, Gypsies, 
>>> and
>>> mental defectives being slaughtered but it took the lives of some 20
>>> million Russians, 12 million Germans, half a million French citizens, 
>>> half
>>> a million Americans, almost 600,000 Poles.  I could go on but certainly a
>>> very high price to resolve European issues starting in 1914.
>>> 
>>> As to the question of the pictures, if you browse the images of the Civil
>>> War there are a few still available of the "hospitals" where the only 
>>> known
>>> treatment for 58 caliber bullets smashing bone and flesh was amputation;
>>> hence the piles of arms and legs.  The United States suffered more deaths
>>> and injuries during the Civil War than it did in any other conflict: new
>>> estimates are at 750,000 casualties.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I love the South and would miss it terribly. There are plenty of us who
>>>> don't fly Confederate flags, support Obama, vote Democratic, and don't
>>>> stereotype others.
>>>> 
>>>> Tina
>>>> 
>>>> On Sunday, December 9, 2012, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Usually pronounced Wah uv Nawthen Agression, this is the term that
>>>> residents of the US South (Sore Loosers) use to describe the American
>>>> Civil
>>>> War. These can be, but not always are the same people that have large
>>>> Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks. It is an inaccurate
>>>> description. President Lincoln was brilliant and far seeing, and 
>>>> realized
>>>> that if this succession was to become fact, there would be no end, and
>>>> what
>>>> is the USA would become a hodgepodge of tiny nations led by who knows
>>>> what.
>>>> There are many of us, however, who wouldn't miss the south a bit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: philippe.amard
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:10 PM
>>>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization
>>>>> 
>>>>> could it be Vietnam?
>>>>> ph
>>>>> 
>>>>> Le 9 d?c. 12 ? 23:39, Douglas Barry a ?crit :
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Don Dory" <don.dory at gmail.com>  wrote
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> nasty deaths from smallpox and ebola.  Or consider the images from
>>>>  the
>>>> War
>>>>>>> of Northern Aggression where there were stacks of limbs outside the
>>>> medical
>>>>>>> tents.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Don, as an Irishman living in Ireland and unfamiliar with many terms
>>>>  used in the States, what was the War of Northern Aggression? Do you
>>>>  mean
>>>> the Korean War? I never saw those images.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I presume you don't mean the American Civil War as I thought that
>>>>  started with the Confederacy attacking Fort Sumter? Well it did
>>>>  according
>>>> to all those school history books (European) I read 50  years ago.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe school books are different in the USA....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Douglas
>>>>>> _________
>>>>>> Douglas Barry
>>>>>> Bray, Co. Wicklow
>>>>>> Republic of Ireland
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP
>>>> www.tinamanley.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Don
>>> don.dory at gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Don
>> don.dory at gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Don
> don.dory at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




In reply to: Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) ([Leica] Desensitization)