Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/01/31

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Subject: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
From: richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:19:00 -0800
References: <C6334A42-E452-46B9-BD78-01FFCE729518@btinternet.com> <CD2F9229.48BE%mark@rabinergroup.com> <1359625270.51746.YahooMailNeo@web87304.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

I think there are two different things: press / photojournalism, vs. street
/ documentary. The former is all about the story. You want to be right in
the middle. This is why a lot of press are using 28, 24, and even 21.
People head distortion is acceptable because you are looking at the drama.

While Street / documentary share a lot of traits, it's more about
expressions, compositions, juxtaposition, light and shadow etc. so head
distortion would be more unacceptable.

Generally speaking of course.


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:41 AM, FRANK DERNIE
<frank.dernie at btinternet.com>wrote:

> Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree here, it is simply a
> matter of taste (or it is in my case). Pictures of people made with lenses
> wider than 35m look horrible to me, and I am not that keen on 35mm either,
> 50 being my preference.
> I -still- think the only reason press photogs use WA lenses is to get
> everything in after they have pushed in front of everyone else, and the
> results always look poor, but are OK for news value.
> cheers,
> FD
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> >To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 8:14
> >Subject: Re: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
> >
> >When they say in effect if your work is weak get closer they're not saying
> >crop more. They're saying  get closer.
> >I think the reason why both press and street photographers have gone wide
> >and close in their work is the rapport they have with their subjects while
> >doing it. To be off shooting them from across the street is in a way
> creepy
> >and ineffective. For decades its been a close in kind of deal.
> >
> >Don't recall you mentioning, Frank  working with lens like  an older
> version
> >of the just announced Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-35mm F3.5-4.5G ED  which is a
> >full frame version of the 12-24 f4 DX's from a few years ago which I have
> a
> >lot of experience with. And a more advanced updated version of the
> >venerable Leica 21mm?35mm f/3.5?f/4.0 Vario-Elmar-R zoom .
> >http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/21mm
> ?35mm_f/3.5?f/4.0_
> >Vario-Elmar-R
> >
> >The reason a press photog goes with a wide for a hundred years now is so
> the
> >other cameras are not in front of him but working in the street more
> >recently its about the  other people are in the way not  so much other
> >photographers.  Street shooters like to be in the center of the action so
> >they can pic who is in the center of their fame. The dynamics are way more
> >lively. Its not the crowd across the street its the guy real big in the
> >frame in the foreground and the other guys are real small and sure off to
> >the side they have watermelons for heads but we're all good with that by
> >now.
> >
> >I thought it was by the way a simple issue at day one period of the
> Graflex
> >SLR giving way to the Speed Graphics to avoid getting the backs of other
> >photographers in the very early Part of the last century.
> >But it was also the Speed Graphics giving way to the Crown graphics which
> >were thinner with no focal plane shutter enabling the use of wider glass.
> >And that was in 1947.
> >
> >
> >On 1/31/13 2:34 AM, "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Why do you think that a longer lens is weaker?
> >> IMO the perspective distortion inevitable in WA lenses is poor for
> people
> >> shots, and even though the hideous technical difficulty of producing a
> >> reasonably sharp WA lens has been largely solved, they are still very
> >> expensive for what you get.
> >> I can understand a press photographer using one when there are 5
> billion other
> >> photographers milling around the same subject, get in front of the
> others and
> >> still get everything in, but it is just that - get the news shot, not
> get a
> >> -good- shot. IMHO of course.
> >>
> >> If you get close in with a WA lens you are in peoples faces, which is
> rude
> >> (maybe its just my upbringing), and you get ugly shots.
> >>
> >> IMO the -only- reason anybody would use WA for people is the press guy
> needing
> >> to get the shot in crowded conditions.
> >> FD
> >>
> >> On 31 Jan, 2013, at 05:47, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Seriously it looks like you had a 50mm viewfinder in your hot shoe and
> a
> >>> 24mm lens in your camera and now your fixing it. The cropped versions
> are
> >>> successful images. They came out even better than I thought.
> >>> You need to stand closer to what your shooting.
> >>> A second option being shoot with a longer lens but I do feel that's way
> >>> weaker.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 1/30/13 5:08 PM, "David English" <daveenglish at icloud.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> For you who have viewed this collection before and made constructive
> >>>> comments
> >>>> I went ahead and made the suggested adjustments on many of the
> photos. I
> >>>> posted the before and after right next to each other so you can swing
> back
> >>>> and
> >>>> forth.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> http://www.davidenglishphotos.com/Travel/Shanghai-Market/27782250_3tTZjC#!
> >>>>>> i=
> >>>>>> 2342544201&k=nVw3BZv
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Let me know what you think.
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Mark William Rabiner
> >>> Photography
> >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Mark William Rabiner
> >Photography
> >http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Leica Users Group.
> >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>


Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Shanghai market part 2)
In reply to: Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Shanghai market part 2)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Shanghai market part 2)
Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] Shanghai market part 2)