Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/04/11

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Subject: [Leica] Is Eggleston in the right? What is the meaning of "limited edition"?
From: lew1716 at gmail.com (Lew Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 23:47:34 -0400
References: <CAF8hL-GWKQ67ccxPjs8dyX98VE9XcoXq5F-HZczMuLBmq-SQbg@mail.gmail.com> <CD8B8DAF.7E91%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Sorry to come late to dinner. "Limited edition" can have more than one
meaning. Some galleries and artists have a written, legal document, signed
by all parties (artist, his estate, gallerist & buyer) explaining exactly
what is being purchased, by whom, transfer rights, etc... This is all
getting more complicated when the end product is itself a digital
production. Agreements can cover responsibility for archiving images or
intermediate materials, negatives, color separations and print (or end
product) replacements, reproduction rights, etc...

I think the discussion we are having here needs to be reconfigured for the
digital age. Just consider that, for digital media, all parties are in a
position to launch their own scams or deceits. Everyone
can reproduce everything. Throw into the mix appropriated works and you can
see we are heading into a murky time where our notions of what's fair or
who owns what will have to change. Here's a website by a photographer who
simply copies and arranges stuff he finds on the net:

http://www.theseamericans.com/



-Lew Schwartz


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
wrote:

> I guess if they were for some reason not numbered which I think they
> normally are and there is normally documentation as to how many of every
> kind of print is in an edition.  So this would seem to be a bit tricky to
> pull off. And I doubt its common and or done by anybody anybodies ever
> heard
> of .
>
>
> On 4/10/13 9:26 PM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> wrote:
>
> > The AP "scam" is when a photographer "runs out" of limited edition, and
> > then continues to make "Artist Proof" after the fact so they can continue
> > to sell them. Not very ethical at best if they are limited edition and if
> > the proof really is every other way the same as the earlier limited
> prints.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The thing says they often say  "AP" on them.
> >> Are for the  "personal use" of the artist.
> >> But end up getting sold for more money than the regular edition.
> >> Its been going on for century's so its really not a scam. But a known
> and
> >> accepted way of doing the business of art.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/9/13 7:32 PM, "Lottermoser George" <imagist3 at mac.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 9, 2013, at 12:40 PM, Bill Pearce wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We haven't gotten to the other piece of the limited edition scam: The
> >>>> Artist's proof. I've seen instances where after a limited edition is
> >> sold
> >>>> out, a flood of AP's appears. Seems like another way to get more blood
> >> from
> >>>> the turnip.
> >>>
> >>> Generally, in the case of printmakers with integrity,
> >>> The Artist's Proofs are made first - leading up to the edition -
> >>> used to determine how an edition may be printed.
> >>>
> >>> I've printed very few "Editions."
> >>> Most all of my prints are "Artist's Proofs"
> >>> and numbered as such with roman numerals.
> >>>
> >>> It would be fairly normal, if a "Limited Edition" were to sell out
> >>> for a printmaker to also make available "Artist's Proofs"
> >>> which he or she considers worthy of their name.
> >>>
> >>> Whether it's a "Scam" or not really depends on the integrity of the
> >>> printmaker.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> George Lottermoser
> >>> george at imagist.com
> >>> http://www.imagist.com
> >>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark William Rabiner
> >> Photography
> >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photography
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Is Eggleston in the right? What is the meaning of "limited edition"?)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Is Eggleston in the right? What is the meaning of "limited edition"?)