Re: [Leica] No digital comments?

[Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@pacbell.net>]

Mark und Karen

I tend to agree with both of you almost completely.

Jerry

Mark Rabiner wrote:

> Karen Nakamura wrote:
> >
> > >Canon being a huge multifaceted company in which cameras are the same as
> > >their paper clip budget. Leica as we know is a very small mom and
> > >pop operation.
> >
> > Other than from the rambling nature of your post (not sure what you
> > were trying to say: are we to make this an
> > any-digital-camera-goes-leica-list  or a only-digital-Leica-only
> > list)... I have to address this one issue above.
> >
> > I worked at Canon (well, interned) and while it's true that Canon has
> > many branches, the camera-optical division is the golden child.
> > Everyone aspired to work in that division and it's the one that
> > people are most proud to be in. So don't disparage Canon's commitment
> > to cameras just because it's a large conglomerate.
> >
> > Anyway, my one and only point is that if we're going to talk about
> > photos taken on non-Leica cameras, why even have a leica list? Why
> > don't we all just move to the street photography list? I try my
> > darned best to only talk about my Canon and Nikon rangefinders in the
> > RF list; and when commenting on my C-V lenses, in the C-V list.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > --
> Yea I wasn't too happy when it came to pass that it was OK to talk about
> Contax G2's and 1s which really aren't rangefinder cameras and I don't
> feel compare to Leica at all with the cheesy AF didn't belong in the
> same category.. There is a rule its OK to talk about other rangefinder
> cameras. Even in medium format i don't know for sure. When the list
> started if someone had a Nikon or Contax rangefinder (from the 60's or
> 50's) it was Hey wow! we're both on the same team here any rangefinder
> person is a pal of mine They were as rare as a Texas steak. Lets hear
> all about your classic rangefinder does it work?!
> Then the Cosina rangefinder going under the name of Voigtländer came out
> with a lens and body which in ways didn't really compete with Leica and
> they promised not to do so in the future and then did and did so in a
> big way.
>
> People come on the list and want to get into Leica cheep. Instead of the
> traditional answer which is to buy an old beater body in our Leica case
> too numerous varieties to name they are advised buy one and all to buy
> Cosina to get into Leica. Or they'll call it Voigtländer."You want to
> shoot Leica photography? Buy that Voigtländer and lens!"  Cosina is
> neither a Leica or a Voigtländer would be a logical argument. The lens
> mounts are the same big deal. I've got this crazy idea in my head that
> if you want to get into Leica you should get a Leica. No one agree's
> with me!
>
> Brian doesnt over-moderate the list. We kind of moderate ourselves for
> the most part. People kind of know not to get on the list with yet
> another in depth review of yet another digital camera. I don't feel that
> about to happen. We are sharper than that. They'll show some pictures
> and say a few things but not make a big deal about the off topic merch
> which took it. Just the shots.  After all there ARE small Leica digital
> point and shoots they could have shot this picture.
>
> So every once and a while someones going to come on all ablaze about
> their top of the line Nikon or Canon body and the marvelous lenses which
> cost a fraction of what a Leica M's cost and are "I promise just as good
> look at these 4x6's" and if it's too much we can delete it at the bud.
> Or read it because if we're going to get into digital we'd have to wait
> for our digital back to come out which is not going to be soon and when
> it does in the year 2525 will it have laughable stats in comparison to
> the Nikon, canon, Olympus and others which have been developing 4th 5th
> 6th generation bodies all along. My rough drafts are garbage as you've
> already pointed out. After the 5th or 6th generation you'll think you're
> reading James Joyce.
>
> By the way i could not figure out why it was Kosher for people to come
> on the list and vaguely say "look at my latest pictures" and you click
> and come to pictures of the persons wife and kids taken with any camera
> or format under the sun. I was amazed that was legal. I'd assume people
> would show Leica pictures as it is obvious or make a big point of
> pointing out ahead of time that they are showing you EOS pictures this
> time only. The fact is half the people on this list shoot with about
> five different systems Leica being the one they cant quite get the hang
> of or trust and the odds that week of them having shot their picture du
> jour with a Leica is small. If they said "only Leica pictures" it
> wouldn't make me cry. People would have to learn how to use their
> precious camera jewelry.
> Of course the Leica list should be mainly about Leica. If not change the
> name. To the "Leica and everything else" list. LAEE
>
> I have sympathy with your positions here but as the days go by and the
> list is not run exactly how I'd like it to be I still find it a
> worthwhile experience being involved with it anyway; to say the least.
>
> One position I have which did pan out for me by pure luck and i feel
> grateful for is my aversion of constant Ebay chatter which has taken
> over all photo talk and ebay in general. It turns out in reality you can
> talk about the latest auction and the numbers and how it progressed and
> how frustrating it was when at the last minute I don't know what
> happened but people cant be selling their ebay stuff on the lug. So
> people seem inclined to not put ebay URL's on the lug and I'm happy as a
> clam about that. There is a general self moderated staying away from
> ebay talk thank god I'd go nuts. And other lists seem to be emulating
> us. Except their lenses are autofocus and cost a heck of a lot less. And zoom.
> See the ebay thing is about buying and selling. That's more of a
> collector, trader, dilettante thing than a shooter thing.
> The Leica User list is people USING not collecting, trading, auctioning, dilettanting
> Using means shooting. I'm a peace nut but i use the word "shooting."
> Cameras don't kill people people kill people…
>
> Mark Rabiner
> Portland, Oregon USA
> http://www.rabinergroup.com
> --
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