Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/11/23

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Subject: [Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled
From: s.jessurun95 at chello.nl (animal)
Date: Tue Nov 23 13:34:00 2004
References: <BDC68D10.AC9E%mark@rabinergroup.com><341A7A4E-3C2F-11D9-AE5E-00306599C552@earthlink.net><20041122025039.5953.qmail@balhpl01.ncable.net.au><E4E2FBC6-3CE4-11D9-885D-000A95C33F68@dodo.com.au><E8ABD80C-3D1F-11D9-B715-0003938C439E@btinternet.com><009201c4d193$eb19f0c0$4649c33e@marvin> <1F299A0B-3D93-11D9-9CF0-0003938C439E@btinternet.com>

Thanks for your quick reply.
The reason i asked is that most sources say that 4000 is not enough for
maximum resolution.
I believe reading somewhere  mr. Puts stated that a 4000 dpi scanner is not
even able to show the difference in resolution between a leica lens or
anyother big name brand .
The only film i scanned without a lot of noise on my scanner was techpan
sofar.Going to attempt copex this week.
I have seen scans from the latest Epson flatbed that look about the same as
mine on the Nikon
but with 4 strips at once.And 4 large format negs.That should save a lot of
time.
Is your 5000 a lot faster then the 4000?
I agree ,again from crude tests that 10 mp should have more or less the same
resolution for handheld shots with longer lenses.
But on a tripod and with a high end scanner that cannot be so.
Why else would most studios that have gone digital use 22 Mp backs?
Best simon jessurun,amsterdam

> Hi Simon,
> I scan at the native resolution of my Nikon 8000 scanner, 4000dpi. At
> this scan rate I get pretty hideous grain aliasing on fast print film
> but nice scans from slides. The 8000 produced noticeably better scans
> than the 4000 which has nominally the same spec. I have no idea why.
> The biggest prints I have from digital are A3 plus.
> Frank
>
> On 23 Nov, 2004, at 19:37, animal wrote:
>
> > I,m curious what scanner did you use and and at what
> > resolutions(which?)?
> > Crude tests i did show that my scanner (nikon) is not able to get all
> > detail
> > out of slide or fine grained film.
> > The detail i can see on a lightbox with a high powered loupe thingy.
> > The noise i get when scanning at high resolutions is not visible in
> > the film
> > .
> > best,simon jessurun,amsterdam
> >
> >> The thing is Rick the fact that you have scanned the film at 6144x4096
> >> pixels does not mean that there is meaningful data at this resolution.
> >> In absurdam if the frame was a uniform colour a scan of 1 pixel and a
> >> scan of 6144x4096 pixels will contain the same data and would be
> >> equivalent.
> >> I have not found 35mm print film to have more data on it than my 6
> >> megapixel Canon, whatever scan resolution I chose to use. My scans
> >> from
> >> slides have been better but not hugely so.
> >> I am entirely prepared to believe, based on my own experience of
> >> prints
> >> from scanned 35mm film and digital SLRs that the 10megapixel R back
> >> will equal 35mm film in resolution. I have heard all the pseudo
> >> technical absurdities about huge sampling rates but none of it
> >> actually
> >> agrees with my actual experience of producing my own prints.
> >> Frank
> >>
> >>
> >> On 23 Nov, 2004, at 00:16, Rick Dykstra wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Alistair.  You've posed exactly the question I've asked of Leica,
> >>> though no response yet.
> >>>
> >>> The lab I use does high end scans (though not the highest - were not
> >>> talking drum scans here) which are 6144 x 4096 pixels and around 75
> >>> to
> >>> 100 MB in size (depending on the variety of colours I suppose).  I
> >>> get
> >>> these printed to 20 x 30 inch.  The DMR sensor is 3872 x 2576.  So
> >>> how
> >>> can this sensor make images reproduced at 20 x 30 in of the same
> >>> clarity as film scanned to 6144 x 4096?  And I could get these
> >>> trannies drum scanned to even higher standards.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not knocking the DMR - I want one or two - but will it be as good
> >>> as my Velvia?  I can't see how.  Again, not necessarily a problem, I
> >>> just need to know before I spend the money.  :-)  I've also heard it
> >>> will be upgradeable and that's good.  Any comments on this?
> >>>
> >>> Rick Dykstra, Australia
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 22/11/2004, at 1:50 PM, firkin wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Feli di Giorgio writes:
> >>>>> I would be very happy with a 10-12MP full frame camera.
> >>>>> Manageable file sizes, DOF of a 135, low noise at high ASA, due
> >>>>> to the large size of individual receptors. I really don't need 20MP
> >>>>> for what I do...
> >>>>
> >>>> The immediate question is what do you do that requires 10 to 12. I
> >>>> mean this seriously, not as a jibe or insult. My mind tell me that
> >>>> 10
> >>>> to 12 seems about right, because I suspect (never tried and
> >>>> therefore
> >>>> don't know) that you could print 16 x 20 at about this level with
> >>>> 35mm happiness. Barry Thornton claimed that only really "lucky" good
> >>>> 35mm negs could produce "perfect" images larger than about 10 x 14
> >>>> (I
> >>>> think) I remember thinking "I've got larger ones" but then thinking
> >>>> but they are not all "perfect", so he may be right.
> >>>> Like many, I suspect I've been too worried about making big
> >>>> enlargements, when smaller well crafted images would be "better" and
> >>>> store much more easily !!!!!
> >>>> This brings me back to my nagging question; will todays good film
> >>>> scanners "match" a 10 mega pixel dedicated digital camera when you
> >>>> view moderately large images side by side?
> >>>> Alastair Firkin @ work ;-)
> >>>> http://www.afirkin.com
> >>>> http://www.familyofman2.com
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


Replies: Reply from bdcolen at earthlink.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
Reply from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
Message from feli2 at earthlink.net (Feli di Giorgio) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
Message from firkin at balhpl01.ncable.net.au (firkin) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
Message from rdcb37 at dodo.com.au (Rick Dykstra) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
Message from s.jessurun95 at chello.nl (animal) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Re: Nikon's profits tripled)