Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/11/12

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Subject: [Leica] Img: Radioactive lens fix works
From: len-1 at comcast.net (Leonard Taupier)
Date: Mon Nov 12 12:19:52 2007
References: <86E01E09-09CE-4A4A-A35C-A8DCA6E7DD5B@comcast.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20071112104050.0160bb18@pop.med.cornell.edu> <96BDC827-732B-40E0-985A-974A30C229B4@comcast.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20071112144811.02be5048@pop.med.cornell.edu>

Chris,

That's the first explanation that makes sense to me. I've read much  
more on this subject then I ever wanted to. Nobody could exlain why  
the UV A fix works. By the way I have been leaving the lens 2" from  
the BLB tube for 135 hours now and I don't see any trace of the brown/ 
yellow coloration.  I'm going to leave it there for another day and  
then start taking pictures with it.

Thanks.
Len


On Nov 12, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Chris Saganich wrote:

> Yea, the radiation does cause stress in the glass but that isn't  
> what causes the color.  The color is caused by electrons re-bonding  
> to different sights after the ionizing radiation kicks them out of  
> their shells.  The electrons need a new home in the structure and  
> that changes molecular bonding.  If we were talking about a stable  
> crystal structure then the UV trick wouldn't work, but because  
> glass is amorphous and liquid it is easy to restructure the  
> molecular bonding...just add heat at the correct temperature...the  
> annealing temperature.  The UV can only do two things to glass  
> either photoionize or be absorb as heat.  Photoionization is  
> kicking an electron out of its shell, but that's how the glass  
> became colored in the first place.  UV B and C have enough energy  
> to photoionize, which is 4eV for glass.  UV A or black light does  
> not have enough energy to photoionize so all the energy is absorbed  
> as heat, thus photo-annealing.  So any radiation with energy less  
> then 4eV would work, the time and intensity would have to be  
> longer.  I suppose UV A would be the most efficient since it has  
> the highest energy, just under 4 eV.
> Chris
>
>
> At 12:34 PM 11/12/2007, you wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> You're right. I've been doing a lot of reading on the subject as to
>> why it happens and why the fix works. I don't know how right this is
>> but as I understand it the gamma radiation given off by the Thorium
>> produces ionizing radiation which damages the glass. The attached
>> page describes the process and was written by a gamma ray astro-  
>> physicist who does work for NASA and has an interest in the Aero-  
>> Ektar lens used in WW II. This lens is very radioactive due to
>> Thorium glass, which was invented by Kodak in the late 30's and used
>> by many lens makers years later including Leica in the original
>> collapsable LTM Summicron.
>>
>> I don't have a clue how right he is. You might.
>>
>>  <http://home.earthlink.net/~michaelbriggs/aeroektar/aeroektar.html>
>>
>> Len
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2007, at 10:47 AM, Chris Saganich wrote:
>>
>>> Ah yes UV A, electron absorption.  I suppose a replacement of the
>>> electrons kicked out by the thorium or perhaps some atomic level
>>> annealing.  Either way its better then heating up the lens to 650
>>> degrees in the oven.
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> At 11:21 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote:
>>>> For those of you interested in the Pentax 50mm yellowing problem,
>>>> Here are photos taken before and after 116 hours exposure to UV  
>>>> light
>>>> to reverse the yellow cast problem due to the radioactive element
>>>> Thorium in one of the lens elements.
>>>>
>>>> Before photo. Lens has brownish, yellow cast.
>>>>
>>>> <http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/LeonardT/Pentax/  
>>>> Takumar_50_2.jpg.html>
>>>> <http://tinyurl.com/233emd>
>>>>
>>>> Here is a photo taken after only 116 hours of being exposed to UV
>>>> light. The exposure was to 16 hours of sunlight and 100 hours of UV
>>>> from a blacklight.
>>>>
>>>> <http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/LeonardT/Pentax/  >>  
>>>> Takumar_116hrs.jpg.html>
>>>> <http://tinyurl.com/2bx7do>
>>>>
>>>> I did not expect any improvement this quickly if at all. I'll
>>>> probably keep the lens in front of the blacklight for a few days  
>>>> more
>>>> to see if there is any further improvement.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your interest.
>>>> Len
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>
>>> Chris Saganich, Sr. Physicist
>>> Weill Medical College of Cornell University
>>> New York Presbyterian Hospital
>>> chs2018@med.cornell.edu
>>> Ph. 212.746.6964
>>> Fax. 212.746.4800
>>> Office A-0049
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> Chris Saganich, Sr. Physicist
> Weill Medical College of Cornell University
> New York Presbyterian Hospital
> chs2018@med.cornell.edu
> Ph. 212.746.6964
> Fax. 212.746.4800
> Office A-0049
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from len-1 at comcast.net (Leonard Taupier) ([Leica] Img: Radioactive lens fix works)
Message from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Img: Radioactive lens fix works)
Message from len-1 at comcast.net (Leonard Taupier) ([Leica] Img: Radioactive lens fix works)
Message from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Img: Radioactive lens fix works)