Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/08/29
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Good morning (for me) Ted For once I have to disagree with you. For a split second and subconsciously you 'previsualise' and make a choice based on that regarding placement of tones as opposed to placement of colours. You do not even realise you are doing it, that is your skill honed over many many years of producing fine images. It takes nothing away from the principal of KISS, but I believe it explains why we often find it difficult to shoot in b&w on digital cameras, in the same way as we find it easy if we have a camera for each of b&w and colour. We make a subconscious previsualisation of the image and raise the camera that suits the scene most to our eye. Finally, you get lucky a pretty large percentage of the time. It is the old adage "I get lucky, and the more I practice the luckier I get". May you continue to get lucky for many years yet my friend. Gerry Gerry Walden +44 (0)23 8046 3076 or +44 (0)797 287 7932 www.gwpics.com On 30 Aug 2012, at 06:51, tedgrant at shaw.ca wrote: > Gerry Walden OFFERED: > Subject: Re: [Leica] SHOOTING B&W? - HENNING > > >> I agree with you Henning, and for a long time I had trouble getting my >> head around things. It is all to do with that lovely word >> 'previsualisation'. When we first see an image we previsualise how it >> will look as a print and make a split-second decision on whether it will >> be in b&w or colour. We then shoot accordingly but when it pops up on the >> screen we have to make that decision all over again and very often the >> decision goes in the opposite direction to our original thought so we end >> up with a mediocre colour image because we shot it as b&w (or >> occasionally the other way around). > > Hi Gerry, > I don't think I've ever gone through this "Pre-visualization" during my > whole career! Film or digital! "I see---- I shoot!" It's called KISS > really for me. There isn't any thought process at all. In the early days > of shooting for the magazines we nearly always shot colour & B and White! > Of the same scene, situation, whatever. Simply because it was always > decided at lay out time by the photo editor or art-director which would > run on the page. > So you just shot the same scene with two different cameras and moved onto > the next exposure. > > If I'm shooting colour..... I'm shooting colour get on with it. During > the years of my medical photography for the three books, so far. I shot > B&W and colour never came to mind other than a couple of times the > operating surgeon asked me to take a shot for a "medical reason" for > future examination and discussion. Still no thought process just get the > exposures right! click, click! > > I must say I have been disappointed shooting digital in colour, then > converting to B&W and not getting the very nice B&W prints I made from > film, usually Tri-X rated at ASA 800. But I chalked most of that up to my > lack of computer/printer skills and knowledge. > > By the same token I have had some smashing good looking 13X19 B&W prints > and content with the above system. Maybe not as often as I would like and > certainly not using the number of sheets of paper before the magical > print!! Regardless of how good I thought it looked on the screen. > > Not saying my way is the right or wrong way. It's just me and doing it > without thinking about it. I just shoot it as I feel it and get on with > it. Truly KISS! :-) Does it work all the time???????????????????? NEVER!! > :-) I just get lucky! :-) > > cheers, > ted > > > >> I have finally managed to get my head around this (I think!) but it now >> occurs to me that one possibility, if the camera will allow, is to shoot >> raw+jpeg but set the jpeg to b&w in your menu. That way you can just look >> at the jpegs in the first instance by selecting only them in a program >> like Lightroom etc. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Gerry >> >> Gerry Walden >> +44 (0)23 8046 3076 or >> +44 (0)797 287 7932 >> www.gwpics.com >> >> On 28 Aug 2012, at 23:11, Henning Wulff <henningw at archiphoto.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I find it rather hard to shoot B&W with the regular flavour (colour) >>> digital cameras. No matter how I think in B&W, when I chimp I still see >>> colour, unless I shoot in jpeg and I'm not going down that route. If I >>> see the LCD with a colour image and start getting that in my head, I >>> have trouble taking the next picture for B&W, especially if its just a >>> slight variation on the first. >>> >>> The best I can do with a regular camera is with the M8 or M9; there I >>> can just shoot, turn off the LCD and not chimp and I see through the >>> viewfinder what I would see with any M camera loaded with B&W camera I >>> ever had. So right now I shoot colour with the M9 and B&W with the M8; I >>> can get my mind around that. Also, since I've always had trouble really >>> getting my mind around shooting colour and B&W on the same day, I >>> usually only take one or the other. >>> >>> When I was shooting a lot of 4x5 for assignments, clients would >>> sometimes ask me to shoot both colour and B&W for them, and I'd have to >>> ask which was the more important? Then I'd get into that frame of mind >>> and bring back a good set of the primary type and a not so good set of >>> the other. If it was medium format stuff I'd usually try to shoot one >>> type first and then come back the next day for the other, if the budget >>> allowed for it and everything else cooperated. Just having two cameras >>> loaded with different film didn't give optimum results for one or the >>> other. >>> >>> I'm extremely tempted by the MM, and if the M10 wouldn't be announced in >>> a month I'd probably order an MM. But I'll wait and see. >>> >>> Henning >>> >>> >>> On 2012-08-27, at 2:46 PM, Tina Manley wrote: >>> >>>> I am getting the MM for the new sensor with higher ISO performance and >>>> better resolution. I will carry two cameras, the M9 for color and the >>>> MM >>>> for B&W, just like I did with film. I don't see how that will hamper my >>>> success as a B&W photographer. >>>> >>>> Tina >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Gerry Walden <gerry.walden at me.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> For me one of the most useful attributes of the new digital realm most >>>>> of >>>>> us move in is that we have a black and white camera and a colour camera >>>>> built into one. What is more, we have every speed of film plus some at >>>>> our >>>>> disposal every time we put that camera to our eye. i do not need a b&w >>>>> camera and a colour camera. I have them both in a single unit and can >>>>> use >>>>> them accordingly. If you continue thinking of b&w as a 'spin-off' of >>>>> the >>>>> colour digital camera you have slung around your neck you will never >>>>> be a >>>>> successful b&w photographer. It would be like owning a car and only >>>>> ever >>>>> using one of its gears. >>>>> >>>>> Gerry >>>>> >>>>> Gerry Walden >>>>> +44 (0)23 8046 3076 or >>>>> +44 (0)797 287 7932 >>>>> www.gwpics.com >>>>> >>>>> On 27 Aug 2012, at 21:54, George Lottermoser <imagist3 at mac.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 1:28 PM, tedgrant at shaw.ca wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And they look quite good! Occasionally it's nice to feel... "Well >>>>>>> that >>>>> kinda looks like I still have the touch!" And smile inwardly! :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> You have worked long enough >>>>>> and hard enough >>>>>> to have the soul of a photographer >>>>>> firmly and permanently installed. >>>>>> Ain't never ever go'n away. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> George Lottermoser >>>>>> george at imagist.com >>>>>> http://www.imagist.com >>>>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog >>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tina Manley, ASMP >>>> www.tinamanley.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>> >>> >>> Henning Wulff >>> henningw at archiphoto.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information