Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/09/22

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Subject: [Leica] New M/ BOKEH????? REPLY!
From: steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:52:57 -0700
References: <FE91FE22AEAE4ACD9CBEFEC063A89E51@syneticfeba505><CC82DB91.23D9D%mark@rabinergroup.com><1348299034.34060.YahooMailNeo@web87404.mail.ir2.yahoo.com><82DB9F5FE14A45528041777594BB11D5@syneticfeba505> <1348334452.72176.YahooMailNeo@web87406.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <7BC11B22E49949AF842F8F7B6BAEBC59@syneticfeba505>

On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:37 AM, tedgrant at shaw.ca wrote:

> FRANK DERNIE OFFERED:
> Subject: Re: [Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????
> 
> 
> Hi Doc.,
> 2 things.
> The lenses you use have good boke, whether you chose them because of that 
> or not...
> Whether backgrounds are distraction depends both on the background and the 
> framing. You are a master at framing.
> 
> You have dealt with the problem at source whether conciously or not.
> ============
> Hi Frank,
> In all my years of buying Leica stuff I simply figured it was the best in 
> the world for my kind of photography. Rarely if ever did any test things!! 
> ..... After all, aren't the lenses the "best in the world"  ERGO: Why 
> waste time testing. It was out of box onto camera and get cracking 
> shooting the assignment.
> 
> The odd time I might shoot a few frames wide open just to see what it 
> looked like wide open and the response was always....... "COOL!"  Put it 
> behind you with nary a second thought. Move on to next assignment. :-)
> 
> So when some of the Lads get into the techie stiff of backgrounds and the 
> myriad of other things that have never crossed my mind shooting hundreds 
> of thousands of images. I've wondered if I might have taken better 
> pictures if I were more skilled at much of the techie stuff? Now that's in 
> the beautiful days and simplicity of film.


I think Ted,  you did it intuitively, naturally before the shot by framing, 
by shooting wide open, with nary a thought about it, and it happened 
beautifully, naturally...


Ben Johnson and the Barcelona diver are two good examples....


Steve


> Today and digital???? It's a whole new ball game in handling the images 
> "after the fact of exposure!" I don't see nor shoot any differently than 
> film. But most certainly have become aware I'm major lacking in computer 
> and software skills. Absolutely no question and I'm the first to admit it! 
> So many on the list have been extremely helpful, so my "tweaking has 
> improved !" :-)
> 
> But I've always been a recorder of life throughout my career as a 
> photographer, be it film or digi. But the technical aspect? I'm a near 
> total loss! Simply because "CAPTURING THE MOMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE 
> DRIVING FORCE.!" First and foremost. Techie things??????????
> 
> Some how I suppose I've been damn lucky to have got away for so long in my 
> fashion.
> 
> Anyway I read the techie things..... most times I don't have a clue what 
> you lads are talking about. But it is interesting until it drags on three 
> or four days! ;-) ;-) ;-) Then I go out in my garden and look for "Happy 
> Snaps!" :-) :-)
> 
> thank you all for your patients and assistance!
> 
> cheers,
> Dr. ted
> 
> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: "tedgrant at shaw.ca" <tedgrant at shaw.ca>
>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, 22 September 2012, 10:41
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????
>> 
>> May I put this into a test of shooting a real documentary for one of my
>> medical books.Those of you who do not have the pleasure of a copy of any 
>> of
>> the three might not have one word to say.
>> 
>> Here's how I work.
>> 
>> I'm in scrubs, 3 M cameras around my neck, a couple of motor drive SLR 's
>> hanging off shoulders with different lenses. And away I go with not one 
>> iota
>> of a thought other than making sure everything is set for proper exposure!
>> 
>> Now it is my eye that is canning the scene watching - looking for the
>> twinkle in an eye just over the mask, the helter skelter of hands holding
>> instruments, the glint in an eye and doing all this without any techie
>> thoughts or concerns about bokeh or many other things that always seem to
>> put the fear of God into others their picture taking.
>> 
>> Regardless of all the banter about many things.... Bokeh for example, 
>> never
>> ever enters my mind nor nary an incline of thought as I'm concentrating on
>> the many subjects.
>> 
>> Just look through any of the book picture pages and point out to me where
>> the bokeh is a distracting spoiling element in the intensity of the photo
>> moment. For the life of me I cannot imagine it ever entering thought 
>> process
>> as a new heart valve is being inserted into the heart of the patient.
>> 
>> Please by my guest and tell me the plate number of the photo page and 
>> point
>> out the bokeh spoiled photo.... thank you.
>> 
>> cheers,
>> Dr. ted :-)
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "FRANK DERNIE" <frank.dernie at 
>> btinternet.com>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 12:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????
>> 
>> 
>>> The thing is, Mark, you are a night owl. You go out taking pictures in 
>>> low
>>> light, and prefer to stop down a bit for DoF.
>>> Not everybody does this.
>>> I am in bed early and up at dawn. I mainly take pictures in good light,
>>> and if it is less good I use my lenses wide open.
>>> I don't care all that much about high iso performance, though I know you
>>> do. Many are like me, I imagine, though we don't bang on about it thrice
>>> daily.
>>> If you shoot frequently wide open it is likely that between 50% and 95% 
>>> of
>>> the frame is OOF so, for people who do this boke is indeed important for
>>> the overall look of the print, though of course it is the in-focus bit
>>> that is important (usually).
>>> IME the nature of the background makes more difference to the boke than
>>> the lens itself. Sun through a leafy bush or tree being the most tricky
>>> IME. I do not keep a lens if I don't like the boke, personally, so it is
>>> not an issue for me.
>>> All my Leica lenses have good or excellent boke. Most of my Canon lenses
>>> do too. A few Nikon lenses have been disappointing and several of the
>>> Voigtlander rangefinder lenses too. The 50mm f1.5 was very disappointing
>>> in this regard.
>>> My habits are very different from yours, so my requirements are also very
>>> different.
>>> cheers,
>>> Frank Dernie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, 22 September 2012, 8:05
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????
>>>> 
>>>> In agreement where Ted is coming from the idea of good or bad bokeh 
>>>> being
>>>> a
>>>> deal breaker and really the main focus of why to buy one lens over 
>>>> another
>>>> is so obsurd it makes my teeth hurt. Far more important would seem to be
>>>> to
>>>> focus ones attention on what's in focus.
>>>> Vibration reduction is a huge thing. Huge.
>>>> A paradigm shifter big time.
>>>> If its conceivably possible that it would effect the out of focus areas 
>>>> of
>>>> the image my big thought on the issue is: who the hell cares? You're 
>>>> hand
>>>> holding a 30omm lens at a 50th of a second I say that's a reason to
>>>> celebrate. And a reason to go out and make images like you never could
>>>> before. Or stay in and do it in your living room... turn the lights down
>>>> low. Not have to use a wide. Do a portrait session with a 90mm and
>>>> candlelight.
>>>> 
>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>> Photography
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????)
Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????)
Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] New M/ BOKEH?????)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] New M/ BOKEH????? REPLY!)