Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/11/07

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Subject: [Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7
From: steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 07:45:20 -0800
References: <8D0A94521E6344B-CE8-80D9@webmail-d187.sysops.aol.com> <CAJ3Pgh7yAwR+c4gh2A=Jh0JQ+Xb2cDs7prx2WDNYzqZ3o9DyzA@mail.gmail.com> <DA935AF3-BF05-4762-B66B-99685DE67A7A@icloud.com> <732CF4DE-4CDD-43E0-9ED8-BD9080A23E2C@gmail.com> <08F12213-F771-4996-A65D-9F31F6284B67@icloud.com> <03ae01cedb7b$90d52070$b27f6150$@verizon.net> <CAE3QcF6PP2yfhkYcVLPpDJQfoPZnWjsnV_0u35zRC+3Yy2xbgg@mail.gmail.com> <C3976ACD-575A-4497-947B-3706BC01C3D1@icloud.com> <CAE3QcF6Z-iXXeRYUFH+tSAPy=91bem_J9V75abaUOROVJu+YbA@mail.gmail.com> <048201cedbcb$fe189130$fa49b390$@verizon.net> <1383838791.83369.YahooMailNeo@web87905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Steve Barbour


steve.barbour at gmail.com


On Nov 7, 2013, at 7:39 AM, FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie at btinternet.com> 
wrote:

> Well, being pedantic, it wouldn't be an "M" camera if it didn't have a 
> rangefinder:-)
> OTOH a "M" mount EVF camera would be welcomed by many. Given the 
> amortization of design, tooling and development cost over a relatively 
> tiny production volume and shortage of other product turnover to finance 
> it it could never be made anything like as cheaply as the Sony though.
> Would anybody buy an expensive M-mount EVF camera (other than we LUGgers)?

true, especially if they could keep the strap lugs from falling out.


Steve



> 
> 
> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Frank Filippone <red735i at verizon.net>
>> To: 'Leica Users Group' <lug at leica-users.org> 
>> Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2013, 15:14
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7
>> 
>> 
>> Bob Adler has stated that the dynamic range of the M far exceeds ( 2 
>> stops?)
>> the M9, and closely approaches his Phase 1 MF back.
>> 
>> But back to the main discussion.....  If the camera is applying 
>> corrections
>> to the image, rather than a computer, aren't the same issues at play?  To
>> theory, yes.  In practice, the microlenses take away part of the 
>> problem....
>> As Adler's shot of the Caf? shows, even at 21mm, there is some vignetting
>> left, even on a M body. 
>> 
>> The sensor in the M9 ( and M8 and M) all have (M lens) tuned microlenses 
>> to
>> help with the vignetting...... You will not get these in a non-Leica 
>> camera
>> body. 
>> Of course, the amount of need of vignetting correction is dependent on 
>> your
>> lenses... if you shoot a lot of 21mm, then it is handy that the 
>> microlenses
>> are there.  If you shoot at a minimum of 35mm, not so important..... and 
>> at
>> 50mm and longer, not important.
>> 
>> Personally, I do not find the vignetting issue a game killer.  You can
>> correct it.  You can live with it, and for 150 years, it was not only
>> uncorrectable, but desirable as part of the physical picture "frame".   
>> And
>> again, it depends on your scene..... sometimes having the corners a bit
>> darker is a real annoyance..... sometimes it makes not an iota of 
>> difference
>> and adds to the ambience of the scene.
>> 
>> The A7r is the camera Leica should be concerned with.... You may not call 
>> it
>> a RF camera, but it represents the best of the RF camera genre..... Small,
>> full featured, high resolution sensor (36MP), stealthy (? Not so sure yet,
>> but the M9 is no Rollei TLR either in the noisy department), has real
>> advantages in focus when in darkened lighting, reliable from the 
>> standpoint
>> of small number of mechanical parts to go out of calibration, and best of
>> all, it looks through the lens, and can use Leica (M or R) glass.  If the
>> focus peaking is good (jury is still out), it is a killer solution to the 
>> M
>> and many DSLR cameras.
>> 
>> Leica, if you are listening:  The M Type 240 is going to have its lunch
>> eaten because of this camera and others that will follow it.  
>> 
>> Go make an EVF only M camera.  The competition is changing the 
>> market......
>> 
>> Frank Filippone
>> Red735i at verizon.net
>> 
>> 
>> If you needed to increase the exposure in the main part of the field by 
>> say
>> two stops for every exposure and apply a colour correction you would
>> appreciate that the correction comes at a cost of dynamic range, tonal 
>> depth
>> and noise performance for example. It's happening in the corners for every
>> frame with wides on the M9. Does it matter in practice??? yeah no maybe
>> depends ;-)
>> 
>> In the case of the M9, I can comment that the amount of correction with
>> wider lenses is quite significant to achieve the desired result at all. I
>> was a firmware tester for the system.
>> 
>> The M is another discussion. I just recovered a few poor exposures that 
>> were
>> two stops or more under (albeit minimum ISO) with excellent
>> results...remarkable.
>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman/image/153233601
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from lrzeitlin at aol.com (lrzeitlin at aol.com) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from roark.paul at gmail.com (Paul Roark) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from george.imagist at icloud.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from george.imagist at icloud.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from george.imagist at icloud.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)
Message from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] Leica lenses on Sony A7)