Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/09/18

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Subject: [Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring)
From: dennis at hale-pohaku.net (Dennis)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:35:55 -1000
References: <BLU0-SMTP929E43B8A29EAF7FF1EB3C8CE40@phx.gbl> <4AAEB7D1.5020808@hale-pohaku.net> <36172e5a0909141550t37d49545pbbdce12e3a49bcf4@mail.gmail.com> <4AAF36FB.5000206@hale-pohaku.net> <D70A55B5-C9C3-4038-90EE-63BF57A5A189@comcast.net> <4AB0AF95.3040804@hale-pohaku.net> <1E8B86C6-F584-4F1F-A56D-02774CE1970A@comcast.net> <9EA80B3A-85EF-46F2-AEBB-F68B1D835884@comcast.net> <DD692831-98AF-4DFA-91DA-4B2C3E92A199@comcast.net>

Hi Bill,

I believe Leica has a handle on mechanical and optical processes and 
there is no doubt they understand things mechanical and optical. What is 
vastly new to Leica has to be in electronics and firmware. Granted they 
built the DMR but I think most of the electronics and firmware was done 
under contract. While I am ok with some of the work being contract I 
think too heavy reliance upon contract will eventually lead to some sort 
of crisis. I think it's already obvious that I am big on having 
significant in-house capability.

I hear you on the old way of "throwing it over the wall' to 
manufacturing.  I'm not sure any of those companies survive anymore. 
Design for manufacturing is imperative today and a cost saver.

I hear you on all your points. Once a bill of materials is released for 
production nothing can be changed without going all the way back to 
engineering.

Anyway, I think we are all on the same page here

Best regards,
Dennis



William B. Abbott III wrote:
> Hi Dick,
>
> Thanks. Amen, I quite agree, and that is partially what I meant by the 
> word "managing an interface," but I resorted to short hand.
>
> I have long believed that Leica has great in-house design and 
> manufacturing capabilities but lacked effective supplier controls 
> experience. I hope that has changed.
>
> In critical areas, I think much more than awareness of suppliers' 
> activities is needed and I sense that we could talk about that for a 
> week or more.
>
> Supplier controls is what is required to insure that as far as is 
> humanly possible, no changes creep into the production line, i.e, that 
> the products of serial production are identical to those development 
> items (or the initial production items) which passed tests to verify 
> that they meet the desired development goals and specs, sometimes 
> called qualification tests, i.e, qualified for production.
>
> By "managing an interface" I meant, for critical components, 
> contracting with a supplier to meet the entire design disclosure of 
> their product and to give the buyer "change control authority" over 
> all of it, i.e., all changes must be approved by the buyer. This 
> includes,
>
> - engineering product design disclosure documentation,
> - quality assurance plans and procedures
> - material specs and material sources,
> - manufacturing tooling and fixture design, processes and procedures,
> - test equipment design, maintenance and calibration, test and 
> inspection procedures,
> - material receipt, storage, shipping, packaging and handling 
> procedures and practices
> - etc.
>
> The precise meaning of "change control authority" has to be negotiated 
> in some detail for obvious reasons and can mean many things. In 
> addition, suppliers have to flow these requirements down to its 
> critical suppliers to whatever degree makes sense and the buyer must 
> routinely conduct audits to verify compliance with the contract.
>
> Obviously, many items cannot be procured this way, and other measures 
> have to be taken to insure homogeneity in production, such as incoming 
> inspection, lot testing, increased supplier testing, etc.
>
> If this sounds like a mouthful, it is, and I believe that Leica 
> routinely does all of these things in regard to its own internal 
> processes and for their piece part and material suppliers, or else 
> they would not have had the success they have had. Extending that 
> awareness and control to major suppliers requires a considerable 
> management effort.
>
> A final note: The thought of finishing a development model and 
> "engineering" it for production, that is, the old way of throwing the 
> engineering design over the transom for the production department to 
> build, is anathema to me.
>
> IMHO, from day one, the product design and development testing, as 
> well as the manufacturing flow, have to start maturing in tandem, so 
> that a tested and proofed production line, including suppliers lines, 
> can be ready when the product design matures.
>
> I was very happy to see in the M9 video that the activity in view 
> "seemed" to be taking place in a full production environment, not in a 
> lab, which tells me that Leica developed the M9 and its production 
> processes in tandem, together, and not serially. If I am right, they 
> deserve a lot of credit for bringing the production on line this way. 
> I just hope they have brought their suppliers up to speed along with 
> them.
>
> All the best,
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Richard Taylor wrote:
>
>> That, unfortunately, is not sufficient.  You have to understand and 
>> verify your supplier's processes, hardware and software sufficiently 
>> well to assure errors and omissions on their part will not compromise 
>> your own product.
>>
>> Regards,
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


Replies: Reply from wbabbott3 at comcast.net (William B. Abbott III) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring))
In reply to: Message from vick.ko at sympatico.ca (Vick Ko) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms?)
Message from dennis at hale-pohaku.net (Dennis) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms?)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms?)
Message from dennis at hale-pohaku.net (Dennis) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring))
Message from wbabbott3 at comcast.net (William B. Abbott III) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring))
Message from dennis at hale-pohaku.net (Dennis) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring))
Message from wbabbott3 at comcast.net (William B. Abbott III) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring))
Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring))
Message from wbabbott3 at comcast.net (William B. Abbott III) ([Leica] See the video about the M9 at Solms? (long & boring))