Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/12/21

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Subject: [Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison
From: daniel at dlridings.se (Daniel Ridings)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 08:57:05 +0100
References: <C935A22E.817C%mark@rabinergroup.com> <1CD6B5C4-1ED7-4E1B-89FB-7FD33EC3EEA3@frozenlight.eu> <AANLkTi=ADTfr59wSr_shitKfuUROyGHnCt7c09YfJLC_@mail.gmail.com> <FE6BBD19-A5C6-47BA-9349-EEF2E5F744BC@frozenlight.eu> <AANLkTimj-6Kt6GNQ-1KdcjwLM9O39-CiEWkh9J2H2Pks@mail.gmail.com> <004501cba175$7323c240$596b46c0$@earthlink.net> <AANLkTimgc9W=sTxEOY4D5fBUbs_mgjiNnN_VWiUHriPU@mail.gmail.com> <005901cba1a3$2673de20$735b9a60$@earthlink.net> <AANLkTi=k_--SUrUNeLSiaXxRTJwSy=AwuNFPaqUTm3Du@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTin1yxEiUdK2OFRqaS_fqO3cbZ7HruX_OP+RdeV4@mail.gmail.com> <0C2AE86F-5631-4C39-9E9A-525D7501D976@frozenlight.eu>

That's why we use Hidden Markov Models.

Daniel

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> 
wrote:
> It's because techies have an inherent interest in making things as complex 
> as possible. Makes it more fun, and makes it less likely that mere mortals 
> will see through the hoax.
>
> Nathan Wajsman
> Alicante, Spain
> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> http://www.greatpix.eu
> http://www.nathanfoto.com
> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>
> YNWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Richard Man wrote:
>
>> We have a standing joke of "Small Matter of Programming." :-)
>>
>> How difficult can it be, just some algorithms and data structures :-)
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at 
>> gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm, in military aviation sytems integrations.we had a standing joke 
>>> (from
>>> a
>>> "technical expert") that 'it's just a bit of sheet metal work and a 
>>> simple
>>> software change". It never is of course.
>>> The point I was making since Richard talked about other 24x36 CMOS 
>>> sensors
>>> is that both the M9 sensor and the required firmware are unique.
>>> Leica Camera and Jenoptik might disagree with you that the firmware
>>> differences are trivial. Or offer you a job. There's some millions of 
>>> euro
>>> in it.
>>> Cheers
>>> Geoff
>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 December 2010 16:40, Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was in the Semiconductor Industry...... ?Usually , the technology used
>>> to
>>>> make a product rarely effects the way the device is used (SW) from the
>>>> outside of the device.... ?Sure, there are some different "rules" or 
>>>> ways
>>>> of
>>>> making it work, but in general, the function and purpose and end goal
>>>> determines the SW, not the technology.....
>>>>
>>>> "Trivial" is pretty relative....
>>>>
>>>> The purpose of the SW is to take the data presented by the sensor output
>>>> and
>>>> format it to the memory location called the SDHC Card. ?In the process,
>>> the
>>>> data may be filtered in different ways, JPEG'd ( which in itself is a
>>>> special filter), or maybe transformed to another color or spatial system
>>> or
>>>> a combination of any or all of these.
>>>>
>>>> Whether you use a CCD or a CMOS Image sensor, the process is the same.
>>>> Implementation is different, but that is both the trivial ( difference)
>>>> part
>>>> as well as the "Secret Ingredients" part. ? I personally think Nikon has
>>>> done a superb job with their "secret ingredients" in high ISO
>>> performance.
>>>>
>>>> Geoff,,,,, in your response, you actually agree with what I am saying, 
>>>> in
>>>> the technical sense. ?More instructions to do more pixels is "trivial",
>>>> It
>>>> is really not different, just more of the same..... Using 2 processors
>>>> rather than one is also a pretty "trivial" exercise and totally
>>> independent
>>>> from the technology used to make the sensor..
>>>>
>>>> " To provide a plain and neutral image, we do a lot of complex
>>>> compensation,
>>>> sensor corrections and lens vigentting corrections"... Would have been
>>>> needed whether they used a CCD or a CMOS sensor, just "different"
>>>> algorithms
>>>> or implementations.......to achieve the image goal.
>>>>
>>>> I do not want to make it sound like all of this is easy.... it certainly
>>> is
>>>> not. ? But don't go around thinking that because it is CCD or CMOS that
>>>> there is massively more work to write the SW ( Actually FW, but who is
>>>> going
>>>> to be fussy in a name). for one over the other. ?It is the same goal in
>>>> either case. ?It is just different.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>> Red735i at earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you work in the industry with direct experience?
>>>>
>>>> I don't, but I know enough that it's not trivial change.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
>> // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
>> // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
>> [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all 
>> previous
>> replies in your msgs. ]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from red735i at earthlink.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from red735i at earthlink.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)