Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/06/17

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Subject: [Leica] "The Puddle Jumper" / Re: How about this one?
From: photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Phil Forrest)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:07:37 -0400
References: <CC030A48.1FCB8%mark@rabinergroup.com> <CC039CC8.1FCE7%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Belay my last. Just saw this one.

Phil Forrest


On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:40:08 -0400
Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:

> Now that I've read the Wiki carefully from front to back I see it was
> far from Joe Rosenthal doing it again; as he didn't do it the first
> time nor was there. Its far more interesting story than I thought it
> to be.
> 
> - - from my iRabs.
> Mark Rabiner
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
> 
> 
> > From: Mark William Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 04:15:04 -0400
> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] "The Puddle Jumper" / Re: How about this one?
> > 
> > I think the crux  of the issue is do street shooters interact with
> > their subjects or are they ciphers who blend into the wall paper
> > and never say a word and I think its mainly the former.
> > If it turned out the puddle jump was the fifth take it would not
> > ruin it for me as the truth of the moment goes. It has the puddle
> > jumpers idea to make the jump in the first place it would be no big
> > deal to me for him to do it again to make sure the photographer got
> > the shot. Which was the exact thing which happened in the Raising
> > the Flag on Iwo Jima shot by Joe Rosenthal. First it really
> > happened. Then Joe Rosenthal had them redo it. Maybe he left his
> > lens cap on the first time. But nobody cares. I don't. Threes
> > enough "truth" in it for me and everybody.
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima
> > 
> > - - from my iRabs.
> > Mark Rabiner
> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
> > 
> > 
> >> From: Richard Man <richard at richardmanphoto.com>
> >> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 01:06:24 -0700
> >> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Leica] "The Puddle Jumper" / Re: How about this one?
> >> 
> >> Monsieur Cartier-Bresson obviously loved to play head games with
> >> his fan. He clearly said a few times that he couldn't see too well
> >> through the slot or hole in the fence, but he never said, AFAIK,
> >> whether he got the guy to jump multiple times or not. He
> >> deliberately left it vague.
> >> 
> >> It would be great as an intellectual resolution to know the answer
> >> once and for all.
> >> 
> >> thanks
> >> 
> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:51 AM, Mark Rabiner
> >> <mark at rabinergroup.com>wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I was afraid of that.  I went flipping though the book when I was
> >>> in Portland last month and I never found the page. The show we
> >>> saw in NY though
> >>> was not that show you are mentioning. It was the Scrapbook show.
> >>> Early work.
> >>> It could be I dreamt the contact sheet of puddle jumping but I
> >>> was not aware
> >>> I was that delusional.  Possible though. The place I would have
> >>> seen it would have been in the International Center of
> >>> Photography five years ago. Perhaps someone who was with me from
> >>> the NYLUG can corroborate it. I certainly can not find it in
> >>> numerous searches on Bing and Google contacts
> >>> sheet mode searches.
> >>> Henri Cartier-Bresson's Scrapbook: Photographs, 1932?1946
> >>> JANUARY 19?APRIL 29, 2007
> >>> http://www.icp.org/museum/exhibitions/henri-cartier-bressons-scrapbook
> >>> 
> >>> - - from my iRabs.
> >>> Mark Rabiner
> >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> From: Richard Man <richard at richardmanphoto.com>
> >>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:37:02 -0700
> >>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >>>> Subject: [Leica] "The Puddle Jumper" / Re:  How about this one?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Mark, I checked my copy of "Celebrating the Negative," and the
> >>>> negative shown is just that single frame, cut off, without
> >>>> sprocket holes on on
> >>> edge
> >>>> even (Henri "ate them," so he said).
> >>>> 
> >>>> No there is no contact sheet of the sequence. Unfortunately,
> >>>> it's not included in the Magnum book "Contact Sheet" either.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I went to the "Modern Century" show of HCB's photos a few years
> >>>> ago in SFMOMA and there's no such contact sheet :-(
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Mark Rabiner
> >>>> <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> In the contact sheet in the book  "Celebrating the Negative"  by
> >>>>> John Loengard you can see he is caught in the air jumping over
> >>>>> the same puddle from the same spot at least 27 times.
> >>>>> Some of us NY LUG guys also saw and discused that contact sheet
> >>>>> when it
> >>> was
> >>>>> displayed in the early HCB show at the ICP in new York a few
> >>>>> years ago: Henri Cartier-Bresson's Scrapbook: Photographs,
> >>>>> 1932?1946 JANUARY 19?APRIL 29, 2007
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Derriere la Gare Saint-Lazare  better known as:
> >>>>> The Puddle Jumper
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> This photo findable now on the internet is mainly used as an
> >>>>> example for the
> >>>>> other myth. That HCB (or other Magnum shooters) never cropped.
> >>>>> This
> >>> photo
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> cropped by quite a bit. As are a handful of others of his.
> >>>>> They are saying in many examples I find on the internet  that
> >>>>> he is shooting
> >>>>> through a fence which reinforces the whole "decisive moment"
> >>>>> myth;
> >>> Waiting
> >>>>> patiently some magic moment to happen from a hole in a fence
> >>>>> clicking
> >>> once
> >>>>> and going home.
> >>>>> But the guy jumps from the same place over the same puddle
> >>>>> strip after strip.
> >>>>> And there was no reason for HCB to not act like any other
> >>>>> magazine photographer of the time and perhaps a bit less so,
> >>>>> now.. To be heavily involved with what he was shooting.
> >>>>> Of course its always depended on the exact kind of thing you're
> >>> shooting.
> >>>>> Baby shoes and so on. Hiring models to kiss in front of crowds
> >>>>> of
> >>> leering
> >>>>> men...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> - - from my iRabs.
> >>>>> Mark Rabiner
> >>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> From: Richard Man <richard at richardmanphoto.com>
> >>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 17:52:29 -0700
> >>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] How about this one?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> In the "Impassionated Eye" video, HCB explicitly said the same
> >>>>>> thing
> >>> you
> >>>>>> did, so I think the "asking the guy jumping multiple times" is
> >>>>>> a myth.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> and I just love this video
> >>>>>> http://vimeo.com/33376713
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 5:17 PM, B. D. Colen
> >>>>>> <bd at bdcolenphoto.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> Finally, I won't put money on this - but I don't think HCB
> >>>>>>> had the guy
> >>>>> do
> >>>>>>> anything. He was shooting through a hole in a fence, and shot
> >>>>>>> a series
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>> people as they tried to get across the puddle. The best of
> >>>>>>> the images
> >>> he
> >>>>>>> got was of the famous jumper. At least I believe that's
> >>>>>>> correct.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> >>>>>> information
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> >>>>> information
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> >>>> information
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> >>> information
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> >> information
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



-- 
http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest


In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] "The Puddle Jumper" / Re: How about this one?)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] "The Puddle Jumper" / Re: How about this one?)