Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/02/24

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Subject: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
From: jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Laurel (gmail))
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:30:08 -0800
References: <CF2BB9E0.185C5%mark@rabinergroup.com> <5321466E-C881-40C2-AB08-4C66A30B3654@gmail.com> <CAFfkXxsWcCic2qhJegHpoerEnFh1ZB7zm6_47qHdVhUkn9hGww@mail.gmail.com> <2B9DDEAB-D9F4-4E7F-B0CD-663F5090D7D7@gmail.com> <3F24E644-A878-4172-AF84-EEEDBBAF40DC@gmail.com> <1F81C9A1-127D-466E-BA2E-DBD3A9E9F883@gmail.com> <FE5E005E-0ED3-405D-ABAE-20D035F8AD35@gmail.com> <CAE3QcF4KERPt8rUy5+xhoSBFcnzRJ_ET7MZT8SiGHYxbb7xfTw@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfkXxtU_bRL4G6kT5nzj00P_Fe12O+jA95bHr5gD7iKj9ch3w@mail.gmail.com> <4E9DD6B6-E721-46E2-B910-62AC7A2FAC89@gmail.com> <CA+yJO1BRAwon6VrWouej=oCnUk=B8DkG=H9x58wNbd8HfsW8HQ@mail.gmail.com> <D37A1EF1-4D68-4B6F-AD4A-16470169B148@gmail.com>

I'd love to see how my CZ Jena 75mm Biotar f/1.5 would work on an A7. Bet it 
would be sublime...


On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:27 PM, "Jim Laurel (gmail)" <jplaurel at gmail.com> 
wrote:

> I was wondering how the 19mm Elmarit R would work on the A7r. I have no 
> doubt that on the M240 with the right lens profile selected.
> 
> I'm guessing that the SLR wide angles will work better on the A7r than the 
> M mount lenses, due to the less extreme incident light angles.
> 
> It seems that if you want the best performance out of your M wide angles, 
> an M9 or M240 is still the best option.
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> wrote:
> 
>> I have the 19 Elmarit R I can try on the M240.  What would be a good test
>> photo?
>> 
>> Tina
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Jim Laurel (gmail) <jplaurel at 
>> gmail.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> Thank you for doing this quick test, Sonny. Looks like the CV 15mm Heliar
>>> has same issue as with the M9 and M240, only much worse. The M240 with 
>>> the
>>> lens set to the 21mm Elmarit shows far less magenta in the corners. 
>>> That's,
>>> of course, easy to correct with CornerFix or LR Flat Field, but the more
>>> worrisome thing is how soft the edges are with both lenses. I have the
>>> Heliar and the Elmarit 21mm ASPH and while the Heliar does exhibit some
>>> minor magenta shift on the edges, at least the edges are sharp. And of
>>> course, on the M240, the Elmarit is perfect. I am surprised to see that
>>> much color shift with your pre-asph Elmarit 21 on the A7, though.
>>> 
>>> I suspect that you would not have these color shifts or edge sharpness
>>> falloff with SLR lenses adapted to the A7. It would be interesting to see
>>> how a 24mm or 19mm Elmarit R would perform. I have been playing with the
>>> 24mm Elmarit R on the M240 with the Leica adapter and it works perfectly.
>>> 
>>> Thanks again for taking the time to demo this... Very informative.
>>> 
>>> --Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Sonny Carter <sonc.hegr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This was a totally unscientific test, but Jim Laurel asked a question,
>>> and
>>>> I had the stuff to answer it, and I think it will help me in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> The question was, Does the V/C 15mm exhibit magenta corners with the 
>>>> Sony
>>>> A7r?  Also up was the question of smearing with wides on that camera.
>>>> Looks like the answer is yes on both counts, though it may not be only
>>> the
>>>> camera.  (I haven't tested the lens for smearing on my M9.)
>>>> 
>>>> I also held a ir-uv cut filter up to one side of the lens, and to my 
>>>> eye,
>>>> it seemed to lessen the magenta effect.  If I can find one of the 
>>>> correct
>>>> diameter, I'll try that one again full frame.
>>>> 
>>>> I also did the same shot with my  21 pre asph Elmarit and the Sony Zoom
>>> set
>>>> at 28mm.
>>>> I just set the camera at auto for all 3 lenses.
>>>> 
>>>> This test probably is not in depth enough for some of you, but it tells
>>> me
>>>> what I want to know, and that's to use these two lenses on my M9.  Easy
>>>> enough, as I barely use them anyhow.  I rarely take a 35 off my camera
>>> ever
>>>> except for my flower shooting.
>>>> 
>>>> Here are the snaps.
>>>> 
>>>> http://sonc.com/look/?page_id=3324
>>>> 
>>>> To see full sized jpegs of the four shots, go to www.sonc.com/a7r
>>>> 
>>>> www.sonc.com/a7r/15-big-DSC00641.jpg
>>>> www.sonc.com/a7r/21bigDSC00648.jpg
>>>> www.sonc.com/a7r/28zoomDSC00650.jpg
>>>> www.sonc.com/a7r/filter-bigDSC00645.jpg
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at 
>>>> gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Leica raah raah forum !!
>>>>> On Feb 22, 2014 1:00 AM, "Steve Barbour" <steve.barbour at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:46 PM, Jim Laurel (gmail) <jplaurel at 
>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> All I've seen, Steve, is some anecdotal evidence. Don't get me 
>>>>>>> started
>>>>>> on Ken Rockwell, but on this page, he does have some examples of a 
>>>>>> 21mm
>>>>>> Super Elmar-M adapted to the A7 that appears to show sensor 
>>>>>> reflections
>>>>> and
>>>>>> smeared corner detail. Lurking around the dpreview forums, I've seen
>>>>> others
>>>>>> report similar results. But of course it's hard to know for sure
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2013-12-leica-sony-canon/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> hi Jim, we are happy to see you back. My point of course is....we 
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> exactly have PROOF of anything, though we do have anecdotal and
>>> selected
>>>>>> stories by people with an agenda. No completeness or worst case
>>> scenarios
>>>>>> by unbiased individuals with data for the leica M240, as well as the
>>> Sony
>>>>>> A7 and A7r. Selected stories to make a  point by people who wish to
>>> make
>>>>> a
>>>>>> point. No semblance of a real unbiased careful comparison. All of this
>>> is
>>>>>> then presented to a leica rah rah forum by people who like leica,
>>> whether
>>>>>> they use one or not.. I would like to know what the real facts are,
>>> based
>>>>>> on real world data, with carefully done comparisons. And if the 
>>>>>> cameras
>>>>> in
>>>>>> question have flaws in some areas, I will use the cameras accordingly,
>>>>>> always the case for all of us.
>>>>>> I used a CV 12 mm lens on my A7r, with many usable results, but some
>>>>>> unacceptable results as well.
>>>>>> That alerted me to be careful, especially with the widest of the wide.
>>>>>> Extrapolating this to all lenses under 50mm is not a conclusion based
>>> on
>>>>>> the facts. Some results of the widest lenses are acceptable, and we
>>> need
>>>>> to
>>>>>> have some reasonable ground rules. It occurred to me that we don't 
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> rigorous comparative data, even for the M240. What is clear is that
>>>>> many!!
>>>>>> lenses on the A7r, give incredibly wonderful results, it would seem 
>>>>>> far
>>>>>> greater in number for the A7r than the M240 because the list includes
>>>>> most
>>>>>> lenses ever made by most optical companies, including all of the leica
>>> R
>>>>>> lenses.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Looked at in this light, I feel that the least we need to do, is
>>> approach
>>>>>> this question with complete  understanding of the situation, an open
>>>>> mind,
>>>>>> and armed with some real world comparative data.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> By the way, the above subject line says OT, but in my estimation this
>>>>>> subject is very much on topic.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> thanks for bringing it up,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --Jim
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:10 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at 
>>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>> Steve Barbour
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 2014, at 4:39 PM, Jim Gmail <jplaurel at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aren't there a lot if reported issues with adapted lenses? The Leica
>>> M
>>>>>> primes, at least, seem to perform much better on the M240 than on the
>>> A7.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> where is this proven?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Sonny
>>>> http://sonc.com/look/
>>>> Natchitoches, Louisiana
>>>> 1714
>>>> Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase
>>>> 
>>>> USA
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tina Manley
>> http:// <http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com/>www.tinamanley.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 



In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Laurel (gmail)) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Gmail) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Laurel (gmail)) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Laurel (gmail)) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from jplaurel at gmail.com (Jim Laurel (gmail)) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)