Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/09/03

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Subject: [Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison
From: roark.paul at gmail.com (Paul Roark)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 12:00:58 -0700
References: <CA+yJO1CWgLMULpqPh+_LY2FwqxY0=QU_5Zt6RTUNCSw28jTzkg@mail.gmail.com> <CABmfTOXABHSyrzstGjVRM5RVcKsCdzDuE5WBSpdZwixzxM=o2g@mail.gmail.com> <CA+yJO1C+yzmwkpc+o5pZAMzMWF==DLz-KLdge4cO8CreCwWqpA@mail.gmail.com> <CABmfTOUxxYnw-66qkTSDOXFB3XbUpHx4wpGy3quqMHZx7d10hA@mail.gmail.com> <CA+yJO1A1HuER8Hoz99R8kZpdntCXbKJr2d4Uvr6uA=QfxMN2tA@mail.gmail.com> <CABmfTOXCV=7Hb1FDt6_iFjnhrDeK8HtKc-c8mxzmuCquM+D5PQ@mail.gmail.com> <4208DF9A260B4A12B5AE4D28D79FC2BE@qck8vqhgou8blu> <E83CF75D-28BA-4DB3-8D4A-A5B03A302102@archiphoto.com>

> Erwin has this statement here:
>
> "The Monochrom produces absolutely neutral monochrome tones."

Talk about stating the obvious...

> When you take a M9 image file and transfer it to black and white there is 
> always a slight color cast.

I assume he means from the printing.  If he thinks the 16 bit
grayscale file is different than an MM file in terms of color, the man
is losing it.

> It is well-known that even the Epson 3800, when set to bw-printing, will 
> add slight amounts of color ink.

More than a little.  The Epson "Advanced B&W" adds color inks to the
gray inks, and the gray inks themselves are a blend of carbon pigments
plus color inks. The Epson MSDS for the 2880 stated with respect to
ink composition that there is ">2%" carbon black and ">2%"
"proprietary dyes and pigments."

In http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ fade testing (the best) after 60
MLux Hours of exposure (about 30 Wilhelm years of display) the Epson
ABW print 50% gray test patch had a delta-e of 1.6.  The 100% carbon
inksets had a 50% patch delta-e of 0.2.  (See p. 2
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf)  We know that carbon is
king with respect to fade resistance and color stability.  The 8 times
larger delta-e of the "Advanced (?) B&W" mode print might be something
B&W purists and collectors should consider.

>" One can safely claim that the Monochrom is the only digital 35 mm camera 
>that delivers pure neutral tones, identical to the ones you get when using 
>silver-halide emulsions."

Silver prints are not totally neutral.  Erwin is spouting nonsense.

I just printed a 100% carbon pigment print on Arches watercolor paper
for one of my customers.  It's not totally neutral either, but I know
there are no color dyes or pigments in it, and I know it will look
virtually the same many years from now.  In fact, the major change
will be that the Arches paper will bleach a bit from light exposure.
With carbon pigments the paper is the weak link, but Arches is as good
as it gets -- better, I believe, than the wet darkroom prints &
papers.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Message from benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Message from benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Message from benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Message from alal at poly.edu (A. Lal) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)
Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] Leica MM and M9 Comparison)